Shay Ellison’s Stardust Discussion Transcript July 29 2012

Below is a copy of the transcript from Shay Ellison’s discussion last Sunday at Tricipian Center. She did such a great job and so many great things were said I couldn’t help but ask her to post this here. Great job everyone! And especially a great job to Shay!

[2012/07/29 12:10] Shay Ellison: you all have seen a diagram of our solar system before.
[2012/07/29 12:10] MusE Starsmith: Hi Sonitus!
[2012/07/29 12:10] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): No, he’s just breathing hard
[2012/07/29 12:10] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): oh, I *did* not just say that
[2012/07/29 12:10] MusE Starsmith: Rhia!!!!
[2012/07/29 12:11] Sonitus Randt: hi
[2012/07/29 12:11] Shay Ellison: 8 or 9 planets, depending on whether you still heart pluto as one of our circle πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:11] Shay Ellison: I want you to picture it in your mind
[2012/07/29 12:11] Seren (serendipity.seraph): or Eris
[2012/07/29 12:11] Tricipian Serendipity: OK LETS all show our host some politness and refreain from chatting after the lecture °͜°
[2012/07/29 12:11] Shay Ellison: now, scale back 10 times
[2012/07/29 12:11] Tricipian Serendipity: we have trained hosts to take care of and make strays feel welcome °͜°
[2012/07/29 12:11] Shay Ellison: then put a big smoky smudge in that space. our solar system will be sitting in a small corner of that.
[2012/07/29 12:12] Shay Ellison: it’s a big gas nebula, a cloud of hydrogen, where all stars begin from in some way.
[2012/07/29 12:12] Shay Ellison: as gravity compresses that hydrogen together, it gets so hot that nuclear atom smashing happens. that’s the jump start of all stars.
[2012/07/29 12:13] Shay Ellison: and this star? it’s bleepin huge! several times greater than our sun, probably burning with a hotter color.
[2012/07/29 12:13] Shay Ellison: it also did not last as long as our sun is expected to. another 4 billion years by astronomers observations of other parts of the galaxy
[2012/07/29 12:13] Shay Ellison: this freakin huge star will only last a fraction of that time, and when it’s life is up, it won’t just dissapate with the solar wind. it will explode. violently.
[2012/07/29 12:14] Tuppence Aubin: Hi Zymony
[2012/07/29 12:14] Shay Ellison: the amount of energy released is so intense, it will outshine an entire galaxy! a supernova explosion.
[2012/07/29 12:14] Shay Ellison: but moments before that event, the star has run out of hydrogen to burn and smash together into helium, which is how stars keep burning for many many years
[2012/07/29 12:15] Shay Ellison: once that hydrogen is gone, it has to keep burning SOMEthing, so it starts to canibalize the helium, creating lithium an other elements from that.
[2012/07/29 12:15] Shay Ellison: this is what populates our periodic table, stars near death that create heavier and larger atoms, right up until it starts making iron.
[2012/07/29 12:16] Shay Ellison: ever wondered what it takes to destroy a star? it’s in your frying pan. yes, ordinary iron πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:16] Shay Ellison: Iron is designed to take in more energy than it can give out. as the iron robs the star of that energy needed to keep burning, it almost implodes on itself, then shatters outward, sending all those heavier elements out into the cosmos
[2012/07/29 12:17] Shay Ellison: in that moment of the supernova explosion, the amount of energy is enough to fuse the iron together with other elements, making our heavier ones like gold and platinum
[2012/07/29 12:17] Shay Ellison: that is why those elements are so rare πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:17] Shay Ellison: and that could be the end of it, but not all hydrogen in that original star has been removed!
[2012/07/29 12:18] Shay Ellison: enough forms to create a new, albeit smaller star
[2012/07/29 12:18] Shay Ellison: but we don’t have just hydrogen anymore, the elements made from that original star are also around
[2012/07/29 12:18] Shay Ellison: eventually they orbit the star’s immense gravity, small pebbles combining, then boulders
[2012/07/29 12:18] Shay Ellison: until eventually you have planets that will cool.
[2012/07/29 12:19] Shay Ellison: that is how the inner planets from mercury to mars were born.
[2012/07/29 12:19] Shay Ellison: including earth
[2012/07/29 12:19] Shay Ellison: still with me everyone?
[2012/07/29 12:19] Tricipian Serendipity: yes ; doing great! °͜°
[2012/07/29 12:19] Arabella Eyre (nitewater): Very clear
[2012/07/29 12:19] MusE Starsmith: so far!
[2012/07/29 12:19] Shay Ellison: creation of a star, destruction, then birth of a new star
[2012/07/29 12:19] Lulu Lacrima sits alertly
[2012/07/29 12:19] Bryce Galbraith: yep, still here πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:19] Shay Ellison: there are many ancient religions that revere our sun, it provides so much for us, helps sustain our existence
[2012/07/29 12:20] Shay Ellison: I won’t say how long the idea of a god for everything was, but back then, earth WAS everything we knew, as telescopes weren’t invented yet.
[2012/07/29 12:20] Shay Ellison: but we are, stardust.
[2012/07/29 12:20] RevRob Beerbaum: i feel it no coincidence of poetry that attraction is the main fuel of our sustenance
[2012/07/29 12:20] Shay Ellison: we are the successors to that giant gas cloud that gave birth to our entire solar system
[2012/07/29 12:21] Lulu Lacrima whispers re-hi Rhi
[2012/07/29 12:21] Shay Ellison: a gas cloud that may be 10 times, 50 times greater than our solar system. the cosmic distances are immense!
[2012/07/29 12:21] Shay Ellison: yet at the same time, we share a connection with the other planets, the asteroids, the moons, all being birthed from the same star!
[2012/07/29 12:21] Shay Ellison: in some ways, this connection is even more personal than our theistic religions
[2012/07/29 12:21] Shay Ellison: we are, stardust.
[2012/07/29 12:22] Shay Ellison: so, knowing what you do now, I”m sure each of you may find some takeaway from it. spiritual or secular
[2012/07/29 12:22] Shay Ellison: I now open the floor for you to share your thoughts with everyone.
[2012/07/29 12:22] Dom Lunasea nicely expressed
[2012/07/29 12:22] Chraeloos: Rev, I agree that its very poetic
[2012/07/29 12:23] Chraeloos: Well done Shay!
[2012/07/29 12:23] Tricipian Serendipity: first i wqant to say ty for “christening” this venue and great intro! °͜°
[2012/07/29 12:23] MusE Starsmith: Shay, that was wonderfully expressed!
[2012/07/29 12:23] Shay Ellison: focusing on a connection that links us to the cosmos, which may even trancend our theistic religions πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:23] RevRob Beerbaum: yes, thank you Shay!
[2012/07/29 12:23] Lulu Lacrima: I think Cosmos is appropriate, because you reminded me of Carl Sagan, who would agree that we are all made of “starstuff”
[2012/07/29 12:23] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Could you repeat it, Shay? I crashed. lol
[2012/07/29 12:23] Tricipian Serendipity: this is a very inclusive approach to understanding our being
[2012/07/29 12:23] Tuppence Aubin: yes
[2012/07/29 12:23] Shay Ellison: lol, everyone gets one Rhia πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:24] Shay Ellison: but I’ll past the chat log for you πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:24] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Thanks.
[2012/07/29 12:24] Dom Lunasea: Philip Stewert’s Chemical Galaxy ; a re-imaging of the periodic table :
[2012/07/29 12:24] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): The phrase “We are starstuff” was Sagan’s
[2012/07/29 12:24] RevRob Beerbaum: i think the idea of the causality chain eg. “we are all stardust” might miss something though. the same thing that can become stars, is the same thing that is us
[2012/07/29 12:24] Bryce Galbraith: Yeah, I can’t help but be reminded of Cosmos too…
[2012/07/29 12:24] Tricipian Serendipity: for many of the reasons you said too
[2012/07/29 12:24] Lulu Lacrima: yes, Rhia, that’s why I chose to use quotation marks
[2012/07/29 12:25] Chraeloos nods at Bryce
[2012/07/29 12:25] RevRob Beerbaum: Pale Blue Dot – a fav
[2012/07/29 12:25] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yes, we are made of the same thing as stars; but there’s a causal chain–I think, spiritually, though, there is an idea of oneness with the universe that has to be plugged in
[2012/07/29 12:25] Lulu Lacrima: Rhia, do you speak perhaps of The Force?
[2012/07/29 12:25] MusE Starsmith: I have learned I resemble a fry pan. Seriously, though, the connections here are astounding to contemplate
[2012/07/29 12:25] Tricipian Serendipity: right rhi; and tha makes everthing around us a point for attachement
[2012/07/29 12:26] Shay Ellison: I find, that our connection to the stars allows us to hold similar beliefs, that while they all could differ greatly, we would still share a belief of this connection with the rest of the universe.
[2012/07/29 12:26] Chraeloos: Thanks Dom, that was interesting!
[2012/07/29 12:26] Sonitus Randt: muse lol
[2012/07/29 12:26] Chraeloos: Muse, lol!
[2012/07/29 12:26] Shay Ellison: and there’s something more inclusive about that as well
[2012/07/29 12:26] RevRob Beerbaum: definitely! I mainly meant that our Sun wasn’t “first”, we all conglomerated and played our roles to end up here, at the same “time”
[2012/07/29 12:26] MusE Starsmith: I like “sense of oneness” Rhia
[2012/07/29 12:27] Tuppence Aubin: Yes so did I
[2012/07/29 12:27] Chraeloos: Agreed Muse, Rhi that was a good one
[2012/07/29 12:27] Tricipian Serendipity: very good point rev; we dont realize we are second players to this part of the galaxy
[2012/07/29 12:27] Chraeloos: Paul, “second players”?
[2012/07/29 12:27] MusE Starsmith: in age, you mean, Rev; Paul?
[2012/07/29 12:27] Shay Ellison: why first or second? why not, a continuation? πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:28] Tricipian Serendipity: as shay pointed out in her intro; the sun was born too
[2012/07/29 12:28] MusE Starsmith: an expansion, perhaps
[2012/07/29 12:28] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Lulu, the Force? Well, I do think that there is an energy field that surrounds all life and allows us to do what some would call “extrasensory” things.
[2012/07/29 12:28] Tricipian Serendipity: before we came along there was a death for our solar systems birth
[2012/07/29 12:28] Shay Ellison: wish I could do telekenisis πŸ˜€
[2012/07/29 12:28] RevRob Beerbaum: yes, Tricipian! we seem to be in a way, siblings
[2012/07/29 12:28] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Thanks, musE, Chrae, Tri
[2012/07/29 12:28] Tuppence Aubin: yes
[2012/07/29 12:28] Chraeloos: I’m trying to think what this connection means to me. I guess its both spiritual and seculuar – scientific as we are made of it, but spiritual because it kind of makes us feel like a community, I think.
[2012/07/29 12:28] Tricipian Serendipity: continuation it might be; but its a process in evolution too
[2012/07/29 12:29] Lulu Lacrima: “There is a thing confusedly formed/Born before Heaven and Earth/Silent and void/It stands alone and does not change/Goes round and does not weary./It is capable of being the mother of the world./I know not its name/So I style it “The Way”/I give it the makeshift name of “the Great”/Being great, it is further described as receding/Receding, it is described as far away/Being far away, it is described as turning back
[2012/07/29 12:29] MusE Starsmith: Process, right. I always like that word.
[2012/07/29 12:29] RevRob Beerbaum: i like that, Chraeloos: community
[2012/07/29 12:29] Chraeloos: Reminds me of Taoism “vital energy” – we are all made of the same stuff
[2012/07/29 12:29] Arabella Eyre (nitewater) has left chat range.
[2012/07/29 12:29] MusE Starsmith: Lulu! wow
[2012/07/29 12:29] Lulu Lacrima: “Lao-tse” as quoted in Cosmos (C. Sagan)
[2012/07/29 12:29] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Chrae, right, I think the Taoists were onto something
[2012/07/29 12:29] Chraeloos: Rev, thanks, me too
[2012/07/29 12:29] Chraeloos: Lulu, mhm
[2012/07/29 12:29] Chraeloos: Rhi, definitely
[2012/07/29 12:30] Shay Ellison: and if you want to take an earth day take on it, we are all recycled stuff too
[2012/07/29 12:30] Tricipian Serendipity: this understanding tho really drives that we are all made of the same stuff home °͜°
[2012/07/29 12:30] Chraeloos: So, its both spiritual and secular for me
[2012/07/29 12:30] Chraeloos: Shay, lol thats great!
[2012/07/29 12:30] Chraeloos: Paul, sure does
[2012/07/29 12:30] Chraeloos: its kind of neat to think about
[2012/07/29 12:30] Shay Ellison: the laws of physics knows how to recycle better than we do! heehee
[2012/07/29 12:30] Dom Lunasea: not just the same stuff – but the same proportions ; (except helium) in our bodies
[2012/07/29 12:30] Chraeloos: maybe we are made of stars and black holes like Dr. Manjir Samanta Loughton says in their book “Punk Science”
[2012/07/29 12:30] Tuppence Aubin: Yes, I would say spiritual and secular really describes it
[2012/07/29 12:30] Chraeloos: Shay, lol
[2012/07/29 12:31] Tricipian Serendipity: this is very spritually to me and its secular bc it is an understanding of our reality equal to its terms
[2012/07/29 12:31] Lulu Lacrima: Secular spiritualism?
[2012/07/29 12:31] Lulu Lacrima: I can cotton onto that
[2012/07/29 12:31] Chraeloos: Lulu, lol
[2012/07/29 12:31] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Shay, I’ve split clouds and directed the way a candle’s flame goes, and it’s by plugging into this all surrounding energy, I believe
[2012/07/29 12:31] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Either that, or I’m possessed by demons
[2012/07/29 12:31] Chraeloos: Rhi, lol maybe a bit of both πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:31] Shay Ellison: or you’re just a naked succubus πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:31] Dom Lunasea: or delusions ; same thing
[2012/07/29 12:31] Chraeloos: Dom, why delusions?
[2012/07/29 12:31] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Shay, well, tell me that when I visit your dreams
[2012/07/29 12:31] Tricipian Serendipity: our avatars are possesed by somethign γ‹‘
[2012/07/29 12:32] MusE Starsmith: WB RF !
[2012/07/29 12:32] Lulu Lacrima: re hi RF
[2012/07/29 12:32] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, don’t care if it is a delusion, as long as I can consistently do it and it enhances my life.
[2012/07/29 12:32] Lulu Lacrima: Hi Nitewater
[2012/07/29 12:32] MusE Starsmith: WB Ara
[2012/07/29 12:32] Arabella Eyre (nitewater): TY
[2012/07/29 12:32] Shay Ellison: well, there’s also documented cases of identical twins who can feel pain from each other.
[2012/07/29 12:32] Lulu Lacrima: Rhia, what’s a delusion?
[2012/07/29 12:32] Dom Lunasea: how do you distinguish a delusion from the matrix
[2012/07/29 12:32] Shay Ellison: even at great distances
[2012/07/29 12:32] Chraeloos: Shay, what do you think that means?
[2012/07/29 12:32] Arabella Eyre (nitewater) has left chat range.
[2012/07/29 12:32] Tricipian Serendipity: here is something to ponder °͜° if we are made of the same stuff; are we allso following the same rules too?
[2012/07/29 12:32] Lulu Lacrima: whoops, let me be more specific, Rhia, what is your delusion?
[2012/07/29 12:32] Arabella Eyre (nitewater) has entered chat range.
[2012/07/29 12:32] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Dom said “or delusions;” I ws responding to that
[2012/07/29 12:32] Shay Ellison: not sure, but Rhia is talking about this shared energy.
[2012/07/29 12:32] Lulu Lacrima: yah, I missed it
[2012/07/29 12:32] Dom Lunasea: at what scale Tricip ?
[2012/07/29 12:33] Tuppence Aubin: Oh, if you don’t know it’s a delusion then it is a delusion
[2012/07/29 12:33] Bryce Galbraith: Tri — which set of rules ?
[2012/07/29 12:33] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yes, the shared energy.
[2012/07/29 12:33] Chraeloos: Paul, oh neat idea. Maybe we are
[2012/07/29 12:33] Shay Ellison: and maybe we DO influence the energy of others, even if that means creating “delusions” πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:33] Tricipian Serendipity: general “rules” of nature
[2012/07/29 12:33] Sonitus Randt: the rules are us
[2012/07/29 12:33] RevRob Beerbaum: how do you mean, Shay?
[2012/07/29 12:33] Tricipian Serendipity: even in our thougst too
[2012/07/29 12:33] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But a delusion is a false belief, irrationally held, that hurts you. You know, like the idea that the Democrats are the party of the common man
[2012/07/29 12:33] Shay Ellison: thanks for the tip Chraeloos πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:33] MusE Starsmith: Sonitus, yes, I see that
[2012/07/29 12:33] Chraeloos: Paul, I think to an extent yes
[2012/07/29 12:33] Tuppence Aubin: lol
[2012/07/29 12:33] Chraeloos: most welcome Shay πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:33] Lulu Lacrima: well, if we all share the same delusion, with the implication being that a delusion does not represent an objective reality, then what does that say about the nature of reality as we perceive an interpret it?
[2012/07/29 12:33] Tricipian Serendipity: what i am suggesting is a general dynamic
[2012/07/29 12:33] RevRob Beerbaum: lol nice example, Rhiannon
[2012/07/29 12:34] Dom Lunasea: or Republicans are competent businessmen
[2012/07/29 12:34] Chraeloos: Rhi, lol
[2012/07/29 12:34] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Dom, yes, or that
[2012/07/29 12:34] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): ty, RevRob
[2012/07/29 12:34] Tuppence Aubin: Oh dear
[2012/07/29 12:34] Shay Ellison: Rev, have you ever had a dream with visions of things you never encountered? patterns and shapes that seem meaningless?
[2012/07/29 12:34] RevRob Beerbaum: i’m not sure i follow, Tri
[2012/07/29 12:34] Shay Ellison: our dreams are formed by patters already in our minds, but we sometimes see things we can’t explain.
[2012/07/29 12:34] RevRob Beerbaum: definitely, Shay. meaningless though, only later. at the time very meaningful
[2012/07/29 12:34] Tricipian Serendipity: i prob will need to do an event to explore properly that idea revrob °͜°
[2012/07/29 12:34] Deunan Cuttita has entered chat range.
[2012/07/29 12:34] MusE Starsmith: (BTW, tips are split between the venue and the host, so be generous if you can! Tip Jar is on the stage…THANKS!)
[2012/07/29 12:35] Lulu Lacrima: Perhaps Shay is referring to what others might call the collective unconscious?
[2012/07/29 12:35] Shay Ellison: yes, give it to the tip jar please.
[2012/07/29 12:35] Tuppence Aubin: ty
[2012/07/29 12:35] Shay Ellison: I’ll get a smidgen of it πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:35] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): The collective unconscious is another word for the Akashic Records, and rests on the assumption that we participate in a common soul
[2012/07/29 12:35] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Which I believe
[2012/07/29 12:35] Bryce Galbraith: Paul, we certainly obey the rules governing matter …
[2012/07/29 12:35] Tricipian Serendipity: right bryce °͜°
[2012/07/29 12:35] MusE Starsmith: (a largish smidgen lol)
[2012/07/29 12:35] Chraeloos: Rhi, a common soul? interesting idea
[2012/07/29 12:35] Chraeloos: like the internet?
[2012/07/29 12:35] Lulu Lacrima: Rhia, do you truly believe that we participate in a common soul?
[2012/07/29 12:36] Shay Ellison: lol, in some ways, calling it “energy” is like calling miraculous events we can’t explain, “God”
[2012/07/29 12:36] RevRob Beerbaum: that’s a nice interpretation of the collective unconscious, Rhiannon
[2012/07/29 12:36] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Chraeloos, minimally, yes
[2012/07/29 12:36] MusE Starsmith: I choose to disobey the law of gravity today….
[2012/07/29 12:36] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Thanks, Rev
[2012/07/29 12:36] RevRob Beerbaum: i remember reading some of Jung’s memoirs, where he felt taht “collective unconscious” as popularly interpreted to be his greatest mistake of wording
[2012/07/29 12:36] Shay Ellison: we’re still trying to figure it all out, but we do feels SOME connection with each other, our friends and loved ones, even our mortal enemies for those that have mortal enemies
[2012/07/29 12:36] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I had a dog that could levitate. She ran so quickly, I literally saw her floating in air as she moved
[2012/07/29 12:36] Zymony Guyot: MusE…the gravity cops outsourced enforcement of that to the pavement today….:)
[2012/07/29 12:36] Lulu Lacrima: Rhia, I’m sorry but I can’t believe your story
[2012/07/29 12:36] Chraeloos: REv, oh interesting
[2012/07/29 12:36] Tricipian Serendipity: i do feel thatconnection °͜°
[2012/07/29 12:36] Dom Lunasea sighs
[2012/07/29 12:37] MusE Starsmith: wow Rhia! does she give lessons?
[2012/07/29 12:37] MusE Starsmith: Zym, hehe
[2012/07/29 12:37] Tricipian Serendipity: but i can feel it too with the trees and rocks; and vistas out here also
[2012/07/29 12:37] Shay Ellison: the gravity cops went on strike when they encountered the massive black hole at the center of our own galaxy πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:37] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Shay, and you gave a way to allow us to understand that connection
[2012/07/29 12:37] Chraeloos: lol Muse, agreed. I want lessons too!
[2012/07/29 12:37] Dom Lunasea: of course a running dog can get airborne – so can humans ans horses ; not the same as levitate
[2012/07/29 12:37] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Don’t care, Lulu; I saw it.
[2012/07/29 12:37] Chraeloos: Paul, me too
[2012/07/29 12:37] MusE Starsmith: why sigh, Dom?
[2012/07/29 12:37] Lulu Lacrima: your seeing it doesn’t make it true
[2012/07/29 12:37] RevRob Beerbaum: yes, Tricipian! I feel that very strongly sometimes
[2012/07/29 12:37] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): But now I won’t give a naturalistic interpretation. Just so you will continue to not believe it
[2012/07/29 12:37] Barbie (barbiedoll.somerset): I have at times felt my spirit on the verge of flight, when i was dancing.
[2012/07/29 12:37] Tricipian Serendipity: lets stay on topic °͜° this is a one time special event
[2012/07/29 12:37] RevRob Beerbaum: I think “feeling” in general to be the bond of the connection, there
[2012/07/29 12:38] RevRob Beerbaum: isn’t everything πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:38] RevRob Beerbaum: (a one time special event)
[2012/07/29 12:38] Shay Ellison: I have an idea to bring it to topic in a few minutes actually πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:38] Barbie (barbiedoll.somerset): But as a being of electrical energy my feet are always seeking ground
[2012/07/29 12:38] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yeah, and my seeing your text doesn’t make you an intelligent being. Turing, anyone?
[2012/07/29 12:38] MusE Starsmith: Rev, good point.
[2012/07/29 12:38] MusE Starsmith: If we ARE stardust, we can’t help but FEEL that
[2012/07/29 12:38] RF Axel: I wouldn’t claim we fully understand what is possible – just what we have current experience of. And, not all of that. πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:39] Lulu Lacrima: so we agree, as usual, Rhi πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:39] Bryce Galbraith: MusE — what does it feel like?
[2012/07/29 12:39] Tricipian Serendipity: this is a wonderful starting point for secular sprituality bc its offers the connection to the “unknown all” with the same providence of a dieity but absent the supernatural
[2012/07/29 12:39] Lulu Lacrima: how can a diety not be supernatural?
[2012/07/29 12:39] Bryce Galbraith: I don’t know that I have a feeling of being stardust… I know it more intellectually…
[2012/07/29 12:39] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Shay, shhhh. Tri doesn’t believe in the massive black hole at the center of our galaxy
[2012/07/29 12:39] Lulu Lacrima: by definition, a deity is something that transcends the natural world
[2012/07/29 12:39] MusE Starsmith: Oh, I meant the connection, Bryce. The dust itself is a bit itchy. °͜°
[2012/07/29 12:39] Tricipian Serendipity: who said that tri?
[2012/07/29 12:39] RevRob Beerbaum: Bryce, a similar feeling might be that of a rampant metabolism
[2012/07/29 12:39] Bryce Galbraith: lol!
[2012/07/29 12:39] Bryce Galbraith: πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:39] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Or wait, is that Sandor? Somebody who gives discussions doesn’t believe in dark matter
[2012/07/29 12:39] Tricipian Serendipity: rhi?
[2012/07/29 12:39] Shay Ellison: and if black holes are PART of the natural world, or universe in this case?
[2012/07/29 12:40] RF Axel: As the Mormons about non-spernatural deities…
[2012/07/29 12:40] Bryce Galbraith: I think that might be Sandor, Rhi…
[2012/07/29 12:40] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): yeah, sorry, anyway, was just a joke
[2012/07/29 12:40] Tricipian Serendipity: lets try to keep this a bit more serious
[2012/07/29 12:40] Shay Ellison: we’ll save dark matter and energy for a future discussion I think. that is even more confusing. lol
[2012/07/29 12:40] RF Axel: supernatural*
[2012/07/29 12:40] Shay Ellison: okay! thought experiment time!
[2012/07/29 12:40] Shay Ellison: eyes up on my text!
[2012/07/29 12:40] RevRob Beerbaum: o_o
[2012/07/29 12:40] Dom Lunasea looks at Shay’s .. text
[2012/07/29 12:40] Shay Ellison: I want you all to ponder your connection with the universe, the planets, the stars, jus reflect for a moment
[2012/07/29 12:41] Lulu Lacrima reflects
[2012/07/29 12:41] Shay Ellison: then say something in your own words that appeals to that connection.
[2012/07/29 12:41] RF Axel: Isn’t the universe supposed to match the properties of a black hole?
[2012/07/29 12:41] Shay Ellison: regardless of how different your views and beliefs are, focus on that connection, and lets see if we get some consensus
[2012/07/29 12:41] Shay Ellison: or have differing opinions that still share in that connection.
[2012/07/29 12:41] Lulu Lacrima: I am all, and I am none, a rhythmic breaking dissonance of one
[2012/07/29 12:41] Chraeloos: Lulu, nice!
[2012/07/29 12:41] Lulu Lacrima: πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:41] RevRob Beerbaum: hmm, i feel that connection to be similar to the connection felt at the gas pump. lots of us arriving at the same place, but our futures wildly diverging
[2012/07/29 12:41] Dom Lunasea: I see fleshy orbs , moving rhythmically .. in concert with gravity ..
[2012/07/29 12:42] Dom Lunasea: oh – wait the text
[2012/07/29 12:42] Shay Ellison: nice one Rev πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:42] Lulu Lacrima refrains from commenting on “fleshy orbs”
[2012/07/29 12:42] Shay Ellison: and very poetic Lulu
[2012/07/29 12:42] Lulu Lacrima: ty Shay
[2012/07/29 12:42] RevRob Beerbaum: thanks, Shay πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:42] Shay Ellison: I know, I almost facepalmed on the “fleshy orb” one πŸ˜€
[2012/07/29 12:42] Tricipian Serendipity: i see thru us the connection to the universe in a very powerful way; thru US the universe has conscousness
[2012/07/29 12:42] Tuppence Aubin: ty Shay
[2012/07/29 12:42] Chraeloos: I’m wondering if “connection” isn’t the right word. Its the same material. Its like opposite sides of the same coin – same thing, just looks different.
[2012/07/29 12:42] RevRob Beerbaum: we all have that commonality of past, and its effects are turbulent and unpredictable, but very much coinciding
[2012/07/29 12:43] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, we share the universal consciousness–the Brahman and the Atman are the same, just viewed from different perspectives
[2012/07/29 12:43] Shay Ellison: it could be Chraeloos, that our vantage from that material helps define our uniquness πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:43] Tricipian Serendipity: i agree chrae °͜° its an inclulsive connection
[2012/07/29 12:43] MusE Starsmith: in a nod to SL, I am made of many pixels as is all
[2012/07/29 12:43] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone) looks at Chrae, as she just made a similar point to mine
[2012/07/29 12:43] Tuppence Aubin: yes
[2012/07/29 12:43] RevRob Beerbaum: speaking of, is anyone familiar with chaos? i feel it very much applies
[2012/07/29 12:43] Chraeloos: Rhi, I like that
[2012/07/29 12:44] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): me too
[2012/07/29 12:44] Tricipian Serendipity: why rev?
[2012/07/29 12:44] Lulu Lacrima: chaos, as in chaos theory?
[2012/07/29 12:44] Chraeloos: Shay, yeah maybe it does – interesting point
[2012/07/29 12:44] Deunan Cuttita: all what i feel is we are just like a thought … cuz energy is the basic which let interact the material stuff … the basic prinicpal is interaction and that builds up the *whole*
[2012/07/29 12:44] RevRob Beerbaum: yeah, Lulu
[2012/07/29 12:44] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone) reaches back and holds unto Chrae’s thigh
[2012/07/29 12:44] Tricipian Serendipity: what is chaos anyway; chaos is an order in itself
[2012/07/29 12:44] Lulu Lacrima: or chaos, as in entropy?
[2012/07/29 12:44] RF Axel: Be polite to the electrons – they are doing their best. πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:44] Lulu Lacrima: chaos is the converse of order
[2012/07/29 12:44] Shay Ellison: this isn’t academic discussion though, so keep theories of M and “brane” theory to yourselves today πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:44] Tricipian Serendipity: is it?
[2012/07/29 12:44] Chraeloos: RF lol
[2012/07/29 12:44] RevRob Beerbaum: more chaos as in the theory. entropy is an expression of
[2012/07/29 12:45] Tricipian Serendipity: chaos and order only exist bc there are conscious beings to select waht is of each
[2012/07/29 12:45] RevRob Beerbaum: definitely, Shay πŸ™‚ I think of chaos as “repeating, though unpredictable patterns”
[2012/07/29 12:45] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Paul, so you don’t think the patterns are real?
[2012/07/29 12:45] Deunan Cuttita: what means real?
[2012/07/29 12:45] Dom Lunasea: many pretty words
[2012/07/29 12:45] MusE Starsmith: consciousness is necessary to the universe, but generated from where?
[2012/07/29 12:45] Lulu Lacrima: Seren, I would argue, not in total contradiction to your point, but that chaos and order only exists because they are complementary to each other
[2012/07/29 12:45] Tricipian Serendipity: before humans came along; the universe was doing what it was s doing
[2012/07/29 12:45] RevRob Beerbaum: meaning, since we are all expressions of a sort of unity, that our evolution repeats the patterns
[2012/07/29 12:45] Lulu Lacrima: thus, without the one, we could not define or understand the other
[2012/07/29 12:45] Tricipian Serendipity: no rhi; i dont
[2012/07/29 12:45] Zymony Guyot: I feel like there is a chain or link or line between me and everything…..atoms i’ve touched touch other atoms, touching other atoms, and so on out into the far reaches of what I can see, beyond that to what I can’t, beyond that to what I imagine, and even beyond that to things that every logical atom in my brain tells me doesn’t even exist….
[2012/07/29 12:46] RevRob Beerbaum: so the solar system continues in a certain way, and our selves are another expression of it
[2012/07/29 12:46] Chraeloos: Lulu, I agree
[2012/07/29 12:46] RF Axel: All patterns are real – matter is a pattern of energy; is energy just patterned space?
[2012/07/29 12:46] Lulu Lacrima: evolution is not a process that follows patterns, not even those suggestive in chaos theory
[2012/07/29 12:46] RevRob Beerbaum: wow, Zymony – nice
[2012/07/29 12:46] RevRob Beerbaum: i’d disagree with that, Lulu
[2012/07/29 12:46] Tricipian Serendipity: order is selective; it requires us ; tho we are part of it , order is not somethig existing indpendantly
[2012/07/29 12:46] Chraeloos: Maybe we’re a figment of the universe’s imagination
[2012/07/29 12:46] Chraeloos: lol
[2012/07/29 12:46] Shay Ellison: consider this as well everyone: what if the atoms that make up your right arm, came from a DIFFERENT star than the atoms in your left arm? πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:47] Tuppence Aubin: Patterms are our way of making order from Chaos, who is to say if it is real
[2012/07/29 12:47] Dom Lunasea: they did
[2012/07/29 12:47] RevRob Beerbaum: at the very least, evolution as referenced in biology, all uses living matter as a pattern
[2012/07/29 12:47] Tricipian Serendipity: the “order” of the universe is just what eveer its doing
[2012/07/29 12:47] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): So the law of gravity didn’t exist before human consciousness?
[2012/07/29 12:47] Tricipian Serendipity: that is not waht i am saying rhi!
[2012/07/29 12:47] Lulu Lacrima: evolution relies on randomness….and chaos theory, at its heart, suggests there is order to randomness…but I would argue that there are different types of randomness
[2012/07/29 12:47] Zymony Guyot: Isn’t order and chaos merely different ages in the life of the same thing?
[2012/07/29 12:47] Lulu Lacrima: which is being very vague, I know
[2012/07/29 12:47] RevRob Beerbaum: lol, Shay. but at the very least they’d have a common ancestor at some point in the past, wouldn’t they?
[2012/07/29 12:47] Shay Ellison: even our dreams evolve from patterns too
[2012/07/29 12:47] RevRob Beerbaum: could you go more into that, Lulu?
[2012/07/29 12:47] Shay Ellison: yes Rev, that giant freakin cosmically HUGE gas cloud
[2012/07/29 12:47] Chraeloos: Zym, well put
[2012/07/29 12:47] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Then what are you saying, Tri? You said that order and patterns didn’t exist without humans
[2012/07/29 12:48] Lulu Lacrima: Humans are pattern-seekers
[2012/07/29 12:48] You decline NCI Dream Seeker Small Ground Classroom from A group member named Alaska Udimo.
[2012/07/29 12:48] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): And that would seem to include the order and pattern of the law of gravity
[2012/07/29 12:48] Tuppence Aubin: Sometimes, sometimes they are a way of looking at the same thing
[2012/07/29 12:48] RevRob Beerbaum: or cosmically tiny, at some point
[2012/07/29 12:48] Tricipian Serendipity: the dicernment doesnt exist rhi
[2012/07/29 12:48] MusE Starsmith: A contiuum, yes, Zym
[2012/07/29 12:48] Shay Ellison: we do take comfort in patterns. even our stubborn beliefs are there because of patterns.
[2012/07/29 12:48] Shay Ellison: and when our patterns or beliefs are challenged. . . .
[2012/07/29 12:48] Shay Ellison: discord and conflict!
[2012/07/29 12:48] Lulu Lacrima: we seek patterns even where none exist
[2012/07/29 12:48] Bryce Galbraith: Yes, indeed Shay πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:48] Tuppence Aubin: Yes we do
[2012/07/29 12:48] Bryce Galbraith: very well put…
[2012/07/29 12:48] Shay Ellison: oh yeah, I haven’t given my opinion yet. πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:49] Shay Ellison: it’s gonna pimp smack theists a little but. . .
[2012/07/29 12:49] Chraeloos: Shay, what do you think?
[2012/07/29 12:49] RevRob Beerbaum: well i don’t think that’s a faulty comfort at all. pattern is a natural result of any assumption of law or commonality of behavior
[2012/07/29 12:49] MusE Starsmith: “comfort in patterns” hadn’t thought of it that way
[2012/07/29 12:49] Dom Lunasea: stubborn beliefs :
[2012/07/29 12:49] Shay Ellison: our connection, our shared oneness does something that organized religion has failed on providing:
[2012/07/29 12:49] Chraeloos: I like that – “comfort in patterns”. So true
[2012/07/29 12:49] Shay Ellison: simplicity
[2012/07/29 12:49] Tricipian Serendipity: ah!!!! yes shay! °͜°
[2012/07/29 12:49] Shay Ellison: we all came from a whole and are now diverse
[2012/07/29 12:49] Lulu Lacrima: such as Pareidolia
[2012/07/29 12:49] Shay Ellison: without commandments
[2012/07/29 12:49] RevRob Beerbaum: i’m not sure what you mean, Shay
[2012/07/29 12:49] Shay Ellison: without doctrine
[2012/07/29 12:49] Zymony Guyot has left chat range.
[2012/07/29 12:49] Tricipian Serendipity: but yet we are still a whole shay
[2012/07/29 12:50] Lulu Lacrima: e.g., seeing the face of Jesus in a cloud or tortilla
[2012/07/29 12:50] Shay Ellison: and it is that simplicity that trancends all notions of God
[2012/07/29 12:50] MusE Starsmith: ty Dom
[2012/07/29 12:50] Tuppence Aubin: Oh dear we keep losing people
[2012/07/29 12:50] Shay Ellison: at least our deistic ones
[2012/07/29 12:50] Chraeloos: Shay, I like that
[2012/07/29 12:50] RevRob Beerbaum: uh-oh, Tuppence
[2012/07/29 12:50] Shay Ellison: which helped me actually redefine God
[2012/07/29 12:50] RF Axel: If God throws dice, how many sides do they have? πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:50] Shay Ellison: into something not theistic
[2012/07/29 12:50] Tricipian Serendipity: simplicity is the start of all things
[2012/07/29 12:50] Chraeloos: Paul, and the end?
[2012/07/29 12:50] Shay Ellison: roll the dice to see if I”m getting drunk!
[2012/07/29 12:50] Tuppence Aubin: Indeed Rob
[2012/07/29 12:50] Shay Ellison: πŸ˜€
[2012/07/29 12:50] RevRob Beerbaum: i’d think that the simplicity is more of a direct acknowledgement of a deity, Shay
[2012/07/29 12:50] MusE Starsmith: yes, a few crashes…but they find their way back from the chaos, Tupp
[2012/07/29 12:50] Tricipian Serendipity: yes °͜°
[2012/07/29 12:50] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone) has left chat range.
[2012/07/29 12:51] Tuppence Aubin: I know
[2012/07/29 12:51] Dom Lunasea: god od the internet is mad at them
[2012/07/29 12:51] Shay Ellison: fair enough, but is it necessary to live out our lives to hard and fast rules?
[2012/07/29 12:51] Lulu Lacrima: are we presupposing the existence of dieties simply b/c there seems to be some pattern to the chaos of this universe?
[2012/07/29 12:51] Chraeloos: Dom, lol
[2012/07/29 12:51] MusE Starsmith: Do you Rev? How so?
[2012/07/29 12:51] Tricipian Serendipity: i think theer is a diff to simplicy and simplifying; re god
[2012/07/29 12:51] Tuppence Aubin: No, the internet is controlled by cats
[2012/07/29 12:51] RevRob Beerbaum: necessary, Shay?
[2012/07/29 12:51] Shay Ellison: to still share this connection with the beginning, do we need to punish ourselves with enforced suffering?
[2012/07/29 12:51] Dom Lunasea: cat + god
[2012/07/29 12:51] Dom Lunasea: scary
[2012/07/29 12:51] Shay Ellison: with our limited notions of how to live our lives?
[2012/07/29 12:51] Lulu Lacrima: what if we’re engaging in nothing more than Pareidolia, on a larger scale?
[2012/07/29 12:51] Tuppence Aubin: Very
[2012/07/29 12:51] Zymony Guyot has entered chat range.
[2012/07/29 12:51] MusE Starsmith: cod?
[2012/07/29 12:51] MusE Starsmith: WV Zym
[2012/07/29 12:51] Lulu Lacrima: what if we’re finding patterns b/c we are predispose to do so, when in fact none exist?
[2012/07/29 12:51] Dom Lunasea: lol
[2012/07/29 12:52] Chraeloos: wb zym
[2012/07/29 12:52] Tuppence Aubin: YEs Zymony
[2012/07/29 12:52] Chraeloos: Lulu, probably
[2012/07/29 12:52] RF Axel: You are using D20, not 3D6 – God hates you! πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:52] Dom Lunasea: exactly Lulu
[2012/07/29 12:52] Chraeloos: lol RF
[2012/07/29 12:52] MusE Starsmith: Lulu, that is worth considering!
[2012/07/29 12:52] Zymony Guyot: Thanks πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:52] Tricipian Serendipity: but that also makes us part of the process too lulu
[2012/07/29 12:52] RevRob Beerbaum: i don’t understand that, Lulu
[2012/07/29 12:52] Shay Ellison: jus recently all of you had differing thoughts of you and the universe, yet still sharing a simplistic notion of oneness, a conection that goes beyond our concious imaginings
[2012/07/29 12:52] Dom Lunasea: our ancestors survived by over-believing in patterns
[2012/07/29 12:52] Lulu Lacrima: I don’t disagree, Seren
[2012/07/29 12:52] Shay Ellison: that’s the simplicity I was referring to
[2012/07/29 12:53] RevRob Beerbaum: i guess if we consider “pattern” as some sort of pre-determination, we’d lose out
[2012/07/29 12:53] Lulu Lacrima: RevBob, we are by nature predisposed to find patterns
[2012/07/29 12:53] Shay Ellison: that we don’t have to complicate our lives with doctrine and scripture, especially forcing it on others.
[2012/07/29 12:53] Shay Ellison: be happy with our beliefs, no matte how they differ, yet still sharing something in common
[2012/07/29 12:53] Lulu Lacrima: and as a result, we are also predisposed to display a cognitive bias for pattern-seeking, even where there are none
[2012/07/29 12:53] RevRob Beerbaum: Lulu – but what of that predisposition? where would that come from?
[2012/07/29 12:53] Tuppence Aubin: Maybe, there is a lot we don’t know about our ancesterors
[2012/07/29 12:53] Tricipian Serendipity: but we do have to force ourselves to some sort of consensus being to function in a society shay
[2012/07/29 12:53] Dom Lunasea: evolution
[2012/07/29 12:53] Bryce Galbraith: Yep… we’ll fill in gaps to make a pattern work if we need to… and we won’t even realize we’ve done that πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:54] Shay Ellison: well sure Tri. civilization is the hotspots for conflict among each other
[2012/07/29 12:54] Shay Ellison: if you want to avoid dealing with other people, become a hermit! πŸ˜€
[2012/07/29 12:54] Lulu Lacrima: Pareidolia
[2012/07/29 12:54] Dom Lunasea: pretty word
[2012/07/29 12:54] Lulu Lacrima: look it up! πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:54] Tuppence Aubin: Not I, hermits have it hard
[2012/07/29 12:54] Tricipian Serendipity: prob is we t hink “our way” is the only way; we dont see it as part of the same process as just “a” way
[2012/07/29 12:54] Lulu Lacrima: I like that, Seren
[2012/07/29 12:54] Zymony Guyot: If we consider “pattern” to be any form of repetition, short of having an infinite type of non-reapeating atoms, patterns are inevitable. Seeking them I think is just a universal method of finding your bearings cosmically speaking.
[2012/07/29 12:54] RevRob Beerbaum: Shay – i think the doctrine and scripture has more of a nod towards the teaching of a path – people have followed certain paths, found certain truths or experiences, and are passing on a sort of method aimed to help others arrive at such
[2012/07/29 12:55] Lulu Lacrima: afk for a sec
[2012/07/29 12:55] MusE Starsmith: Yes we do Bryce. Whence comes the initial pattern?
[2012/07/29 12:55] Tuppence Aubin: I live that Zym
[2012/07/29 12:55] Shay Ellison: yes, good thought Tri. there are many ways to write a program that adds 1 and 1 together. all programs can differ, but they still arrive at the same outcome πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 12:55] MusE Starsmith: hb Lulu
[2012/07/29 12:55] RF Axel: How will the priests persuade us to give them free food, then? πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:55] Tricipian Serendipity: exactly shay γ‹‘
[2012/07/29 12:55] Tuppence Aubin: I don’t have a priest
[2012/07/29 12:55] Amandeep Timeless: patterns to stack the odds
[2012/07/29 12:56] RevRob Beerbaum: i like that, Zymony
[2012/07/29 12:56] Shay Ellison: keep in mind Rev, truth is also perception. what we take away from a given event, and that does not aid in eye witness testimony
[2012/07/29 12:56] MusE Starsmith: RF! γ‹‘
[2012/07/29 12:56] Lulu Lacrima: back
[2012/07/29 12:56] Shay Ellison: like that classroom experiment where one child whispers something to the one next to them, and then throughout the entire room
[2012/07/29 12:56] Shay Ellison: but ending up with a totally different phrase.
[2012/07/29 12:56] Zymony Guyot: Well some patterns when identified, win you bar bets and little else…..others let you make tons of money in say the football pool or the stock market πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 12:56] Tricipian Serendipity: patterns are parts of the whole; not apart from it
[2012/07/29 12:56] MusE Starsmith: Yes, always astounding, that experiment, Shay
[2012/07/29 12:56] Tuppence Aubin: Good point
[2012/07/29 12:56] Lulu Lacrima: sometimes the whole is not the sum of its parts
[2012/07/29 12:56] Sonitus Randt: like waves on the ocean, paul
[2012/07/29 12:57] Lulu Lacrima: a Gestalt perspective
[2012/07/29 12:57] Tricipian Serendipity: yes
[2012/07/29 12:57] RevRob Beerbaum: still, Shay, even if we say that a certain site (like the beach) is worth seeing, we’re saying that going to such a site (reproducing the events) is a good thing
[2012/07/29 12:57] Tricipian Serendipity: the whole is always the sum of its parts
[2012/07/29 12:57] Tricipian Serendipity: we select diff parts to call a whole tho hehe
[2012/07/29 12:57] Shay Ellison: and you you ask two women or two men in love if their relationship is good or evil, then ask a devout priest for the catholic faith the same, you will likely get two seperate answers
[2012/07/29 12:57] Shay Ellison: so what IS good, and what IS evil?
[2012/07/29 12:57] Shay Ellison: what is truth?
[2012/07/29 12:57] Shay Ellison: yours? mine?
[2012/07/29 12:58] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone) has entered chat range.
[2012/07/29 12:58] RevRob Beerbaum: ours
[2012/07/29 12:58] Lulu Lacrima: nope, there is a phenomenon in psychology that is “gestalt” which illustrates experimimentally that we actually will perceive a “whole” object without all of its constituent parts
[2012/07/29 12:58] Tricipian Serendipity: those are deep tangents shay hehe
[2012/07/29 12:58] MusE Starsmith: WB Rhia
[2012/07/29 12:58] Shay Ellison: that’s the end goal, to hopefully find some shared belief we don’t have to kill and/or hurt each other over.
[2012/07/29 12:58] RevRob Beerbaum: creativty, Lulu
[2012/07/29 12:58] RF Axel: No emergent stuff, then, Tri?
[2012/07/29 12:58] MusE Starsmith: worthy goal, Shay!
[2012/07/29 12:58] Chraeloos: wb Rhi
[2012/07/29 12:58] RevRob Beerbaum: well killing each other is politics – not spirituality
[2012/07/29 12:58] Dom Lunasea: ask the vegetarians about killing each other ;
[2012/07/29 12:58] Tricipian Serendipity: but again good and evil is like order an chaos
[2012/07/29 12:59] Tricipian Serendipity: they are biases
[2012/07/29 12:59] Lulu Lacrima: not really, RevBob, even simple perceptual entitites
[2012/07/29 12:59] Shay Ellison: we almost at end of discussion. I guess this is where it can go in any direction, but before we wrap up, any final thoughts from the gang?
[2012/07/29 12:59] Lulu Lacrima: what I’m describing now is not a bias
[2012/07/29 12:59] Dom Lunasea: we are all starstuff , we share dna ; we eat each other
[2012/07/29 12:59] Shay Ellison: what’s a good takeaway to um. . . take away? πŸ˜€
[2012/07/29 12:59] Chraeloos: Shay, you did a great job. I’d love to see events like this more often!
[2012/07/29 12:59] Tricipian Serendipity: sure there is emergence
[2012/07/29 12:59] Dom Lunasea: mmmm takeaway
[2012/07/29 12:59] Zymony Guyot: Yes….Very Well Done Shay!!!!
[2012/07/29 12:59] MusE Starsmith: hmmm, Dom! °͜°
[2012/07/29 12:59] RevRob Beerbaum: give us a focus, Shay?
[2012/07/29 12:59] Melody (melody.trefusis) has left chat range.
[2012/07/29 12:59] Amandeep Timeless: thanks Shay!
[2012/07/29 12:59] Lulu Lacrima: it’s just the way our brains works: we decode information that’s merely sufficient to define a “whole” without always incorporating all of its parts
[2012/07/29 12:59] Lulu Lacrima: it’s actually an efficient process
[2012/07/29 12:59] Lulu Lacrima: if you think about it
[2012/07/29 13:00] Lulu Lacrima: thus evolutionarily sensible
[2012/07/29 13:00] Tricipian Serendipity: i have the anser to the focus hehe
[2012/07/29 13:00] Amandeep Timeless: decipher enough to be useful
[2012/07/29 13:00] RevRob Beerbaum: hehe
[2012/07/29 13:00] Shay Ellison: many scientists would call it categorization, Lulu πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 13:00] Lulu Lacrima: amandeep, exactly
[2012/07/29 13:00] Lulu Lacrima: no, shay, it’s Gestalt
[2012/07/29 13:00] RF Axel: That we can exchange views shows we are connected?
[2012/07/29 13:00] Tricipian Serendipity: look at your own life ; if we are part of the all then our lives are the all too
[2012/07/29 13:00] RevRob Beerbaum: definitely, Tricipian
[2012/07/29 13:00] Chraeloos: Paul, I like that
[2012/07/29 13:00] RevRob Beerbaum: we are the fringes of the same process
[2012/07/29 13:00] Tricipian Serendipity: there is nothing we are doing that is outside of being
[2012/07/29 13:01] MusE Starsmith: (In the chaos, you may not have remembered that the tip jar is on the stage, but there it is, should you wish it) γ‹‘
[2012/07/29 13:01] Shay Ellison: “No man is an island, entire of itself. Every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main.” — John Donne
[2012/07/29 13:01] Amandeep Timeless: you decide which molecules will be
[2012/07/29 13:01] Tricipian Serendipity: hear here! shay
[2012/07/29 13:01] Lulu Lacrima:
[2012/07/29 13:01] Shay Ellison: damnit! I could’ve worked that quote in earlier! πŸ˜€
[2012/07/29 13:01] MusE Starsmith: such a good one, Shay
[2012/07/29 13:02] RF Axel: Your teeth like you -if they didn’t you’d be in real trouble – that sort of conclusion? πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 13:02] Dom Lunasea: pretty words
[2012/07/29 13:02] MusE Starsmith: Aman, oh…!
[2012/07/29 13:02] Tricipian Serendipity: i really liked this event °͜°
[2012/07/29 13:02] Sonitus Randt: enjoyed this shay, all very interesting
[2012/07/29 13:02] Shay Ellison: pretty words preceede pompous posturings? πŸ˜€
[2012/07/29 13:02] Bryce Galbraith: thanks for hosting Shay πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 13:02] RevRob Beerbaum: thanks so much, Shay!
[2012/07/29 13:02] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): “I am you and you are me and we are all together; I am the Walrus; I am the Egg man. Koo koo a choo”
[2012/07/29 13:02] Chraeloos: Thank you so much Shay!
[2012/07/29 13:02] Tuppence Aubin: thank you
[2012/07/29 13:02] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Applause!
[2012/07/29 13:03] MusE Starsmith: This was fantastic, really good job, Shay!
[2012/07/29 13:03] Zymony Guyot: For me the takeaway is that even though I consider myself a conscious human with my own thoughts and self-awareness….I might still be a tiny molecule in a greater organism that I cannot comprehend….for now I’m calling it “God” but “Working Title” could be just as suitable….and that my quest for spirituality is the gradual understanding of what playing this part means….
[2012/07/29 13:03] Barbie (barbiedoll.somerset): I’m bitter because everyone here seems so much more informed on the topic than am I πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 13:03] Chraeloos: lol Rhi, love it
[2012/07/29 13:03] Tuppence Aubin: More applause
[2012/07/29 13:03] Arabella Eyre (nitewater): And all you need is love?
[2012/07/29 13:03] Shay Ellison: thanks for sharing your views and finding our beliefs are possibly different takes on a shared ideal
[2012/07/29 13:03] MusE Starsmith: LIke that, Zymony
[2012/07/29 13:03] Tricipian Serendipity: open stage discussions! (new event???)
[2012/07/29 13:03] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Arabella, exactly
[2012/07/29 13:03] Zymony Guyot: Yes Shay, wonderful discussion!!!
[2012/07/29 13:03] RevRob Beerbaum: Zymony – interesting!
[2012/07/29 13:03] Chraeloos: Zym, agreed!
[2012/07/29 13:03] Lulu Lacrima: Shay, terrific job!
[2012/07/29 13:03] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It was a smashing success, Paul, so I’d say, yes
[2012/07/29 13:03] MusE Starsmith: * * clap clap clap * *
[2012/07/29 13:03] Tricipian Serendipity: maybe our beliefds are not all that different
[2012/07/29 13:03] Dom Lunasea: Poets priests and politicians
Have words to thank for their positions
Words that scream for your submission
And no-one’s jamming their transmission
‘Cos when their eloquence escapes you
Their logic ties you up and rapes you
[2012/07/29 13:03] Shay Ellison: that was the title of John Donne’s poem actually, Love
[2012/07/29 13:03] Tricipian Serendipity: if they stem from the same star stuff must be something common there °͜°
[2012/07/29 13:03] Amandeep Timeless: 1/7 billionth God
[2012/07/29 13:04] Zymony Guyot: PRobably not Tri….we like like killing each other over a working title πŸ™‚
[2012/07/29 13:04] Shay Ellison: another definition for love, as if we didn’t have too many already πŸ˜‰
[2012/07/29 13:04] Shay Ellison: the all inclusive definitions of love are my favorite

Play-Doh and String Theory

Ok, as I was just playing with Play-doh (yes, I’m a big girl) I came across a realization. In string theory they suggest that the dimensions may be rolled up in a spiral – ie. imagine a Taquito, or a poster. They exist so tightly wrapped that we can’t even see them, or measure them, or anything. All eleven of the suckers. Well, if you think about it, if the universe was built spontaneously, it wouldn’t know what to do with itself, so it’s a possibility, just as any other theory, that this is how its laid out. It wasn’t being very considerate of the possible being that may one day inhabit it but it didn’t really know what was coming at it. So, as I’m playing with this Play-Doh, I was twisting it. In a spiral-esque way – one side twisting the opposite way from the other. I noticed that it usually breaks in the middle, but can, under certain unknown pressures from myself, break further to one side than the other. However, if you flatten it out as thin as it can go and wrap it up tight (gotta keep those fillings inside!) then it will almost always be harder to twist and will break apart in the centre. Now, I’m not necessarily suggesting that the universe knew what it was doing when it was being created, but if it did, wouldn’t it want to be durable and tough? I know I would be. So if string theorists are right, and there are 11 dimensions and they’re all wrapped up around each other, and we were born in the centre of a black hole, then that means there must be something else out there where the original black hole that birthed us exists. Perhaps whatever that thing is is self-generating and knows what to do to make itself durable. Maybe it’s like the Coordinators from Gundam Seed where they choose the qualities for their children…okay that’s a tangent. Then again, this whole thing is a tangent.

Ok, don’t mind me, I’m on some pretty good cold meds and they make me pretty loopy…anyway I just thought I’d share that random thought with you all.

The other thing I noticed as I was reading over this to make sure it made sense (hahaha), is that not all the 11 dimensions are wrapped up, there space-time, the two dimensions of space, and a dimension of time. Then again if you ask some Rebel Physicists, they’d say there are three dimensions of time and one of space, but that’s just a weird conclusion (because at any point now any conclusion ISN’T weird…pft).

Anyway, I came across all this while listening to an American Museum of Natural History podcast titled, “A Universe from Nothing” with Lawrence Krauss. Which, by the way, if you haven’t read the book (and even if you have) is a great intro to his ideas!

Ok, plug, plug, plug, I’m logging off now. But I highly suggest you all pick up a copy of Krauss’ book, read the Rebel Physicist’s theories, and play with Play-Doh more often!

Jan 31 Intro notes

Topic: The State of the Universe and Cosmogony
Over the years there have been many hypothesis as to the state of the universe. Did it start as a big bang or a steady state? Is it describable be information and therefore computable, as in digital physics?
The study of this is described by the word “cosmology”. Cosmology, asΒ defined by NASA, is “the scientific study of the large scale properties of the universe as a whole.” Cosmogony also comes into play, as it has to do with “any scientific theory concerning the coming into existence or origin of the cosmos or universe, or about how reality came to be.” –Wikipedia
TheΒ Big Bang theoryΒ “postulates that 12 to 14 billion years ago, the portion of the universe we can see today was only a few millimetres across. It has since expanded from this hot dense state into the vast and much cooler cosmos we currently inhabit. We can see remnants of this hot dense matter as the now very cold cosmic microwave background radiation which still pervades the universe and is visible to microwave detectors as a uniform glow across the entire sky.” The problem with this, is how the original matter came to exist.
WikipediaΒ states that “digital physics is grounded in one or more of the following hypotheses; the hypothesis are listed in order of increasing strength. The universe, or reality, is:
-essentially informational (although not every informational ontology needs to be digital);
-essentially computable;
-can be described digitally;
-in essence digital;
-itself a computer;
-the output of a simulated reality exercise.”
TheΒ Steady State theory, although largely disproved by science, states that new matter must be continuously created (mostly as hydrogen) to keep the average density of matter equal over time. Or, in other words, the universe is infinite and continuous – it didn’t emerge, it was just always there.
“TheΒ Ekpyrotic modelΒ came out of work by Neil Turok and Paul Steinhardt and maintains that the universe did not start in a singularity, but came about from the collision of two branes. This collision avoids the primordial singularity and superluminal expansion while preserving nearly scale-free density fluctuations and other features of the observed universe.”
Wikipedia: “String theory posits that the electrons and quarks within an atom are not 0-dimensional objects, but rather 1-dimensional oscillating lines (“strings”). The earliest string model, the bosonic string, incorporated only bosons, although this view developed to the superstring theory, which posits that a connection (a “supersymmetry”) exists between bosons and fermions. String theories also require the existence of several extra, unobservable dimensions to the universe, in addition to the four known spacetime dimensions.
The theory has its origins in an effort to understand the strong force, the dual resonance model (1969). Subsequent to this, five different superstring theories were developed that incorporated fermions and possessed other properties necessary for a theory of everything. Since the mid-1990s, in particular due to insights from dualities shown to relate the five theories, an eleven-dimensional theory called M-theory is believed to encompass all of the previously-distinct superstring theories.”
“TheΒ Big BounceΒ is a theoretical scientific model of the formation of the known universe. It is implied by the cyclic model or oscillatory universe interpretation of the Big Bang where the first cosmological event was the result of the collapse of a previous universe.”
Some of these ideas work together, whereas others are complete opposites. The question I pose is where do you think the universe came from (if it came from anywhere at all)? Did it always exist? Will it end?
I open the floor.