Corona presented her theory that two books of the bible relate to astronomy, specifically constellations, and that many of the descriptions can be described as astronomical events. It was a good turnout with seven people who came, and everyone stayed right till the end. She will be presenting a lecture next Sunday, Jan 15 at noonSLT, at the online E&S Cafe.
Completely unedited transcript below:
[11:36] myxtc: greetings, sweet souls 🙂
[11:37] myxtc: will it be in voice?
[11:37] Chraeloos: Hello everyone Morally Reprehensible, myxtic 🙂
[11:37] Chraeloos: Nope, in local chat
[11:37] MorallyReprehensible: Hello
[11:37] myxtc: great!
[11:37] Chraeloos: Have a seat wherever you like, she should be here shortly
[11:38] myxtc: i shall be afk but would like to catch the local chat to read later, if thats ok 🙂
[11:39] Chraeloos: No problem
[11:39] myxtc: thanks 🙂
[11:39] myxtc: afk
[11:42] No room to sit here, try another spot.
[11:53] Chraeloos: Hi Corona 🙂
[11:54] Can’t reposition — permission denied
[11:59] Corona Anatine: hi
[12:00] Corona Anatine: I wil bring them down when right time
[12:00] Chraeloos: Alright 🙂
[12:01] *SandBrocade II Ottoman Blk Pld whispers: Hi Corona Anatine! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[12:02] Chraeloos: Hi Rhia! how are you?
[12:02] Corona Anatine: ok i wil sit here as i need to cam the images
[12:02] Chraeloos: sure
[12:02] Rhiannon of the Birds: Chrae, good, but freezing; that rain is cold. lo
[12:02] Rhiannon of the Birds: lol
[12:02] Rhiannon of the Birds: Hi Karl, MOrally, Corona
[12:02] Chraeloos: Sorry haha, it has a mind of its own
[12:02] Rhiannon of the Birds: Hi Zo!
[12:02] Rhiannon of the Birds: Bryce should be along soon too
[12:02] Corona Anatine: ok i had best begin 0 i wil give it 5 mins the open
[12:02] Zobeid Zuma: Hii
[12:02] Chraeloos: Hello Zo 🙂
[12:02] Chraeloos: Alright
[12:03] Bryce Galbraith: hi all
[12:03] Chraeloos: Hi Bryce 🙂
[12:03] Corona Anatine: Hi all
[12:03] Rhiannon of the Birds: ok, Corona
[12:03] Bryce Galbraith: Rehi Zobeid 🙂
[12:04] sofa cushion whispers: Hi Zobeid Zuma! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[12:04] Rhiannon of the Birds: oh, Chrae, the fire seems about to go out
[12:04] Chraeloos: uhoh, lets see what I can do about that
[12:04] Object whispers: sorry, you are not permitted to change fire settings
[12:04] Object whispers: sorry, you are not permitted to change fire settings
[12:04] Rhiannon of the Birds: I’d appreciate it, i’m dripping wet here
[12:05] Rhiannon of the Birds: Corona, where do you want us?
[12:05] Chraeloos: There we go 🙂
[12:06] Corona Anatine: where ever suits
[12:06] *SandBrocade II Ottoman Blk Pld whispers: Hi Rhiannon Dragoone! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[12:06] Corona Anatine: i will be rotating the items
[12:06] Corona Anatine: and people need to see them or at least cam
[12:06] Rhiannon of the Birds: I” sit by the fire, at least ’till I dry off
[12:06] Zobeid Zuma: items?
[12:06] Chraeloos: The big black things on the stage
[12:06] Corona Anatine: also im not sure whcih way the cubes are facing
[12:07] Zobeid Zuma: Ah!
[12:07] Corona Anatine: so there may be apuses while i adjust scenary
[12:07] Corona Anatine: pauses
[12:08] Chraeloos: Hello Gilles 🙂
[12:08] Corona Anatine: hi Gilles
[12:08] Gilles Kuhn: Hoooooowls!!
[12:08] Rhiannon of the Birds: Hi Gilles!
[12:08] Bryce Galbraith: Hi Gilles
[12:09] Rhiannon of the Birds: mystic, you’re a cloud
[12:09] Corona Anatine: ok lets start – sL is being a bit laggy so agian there might be pauses
[12:09] Chraeloos: Ok
[12:09] Rhiannon of the Birds: ok
[12:09] sofa cushion whispers: Hi Gilles Kuhn! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[12:10] Corona Anatine: ok the night sky
[12:10] Corona Anatine: on the right is the constellation
[12:11] Corona Anatine: on the left the dendera zodiac
[12:11] Corona Anatine: of which more in a while
[12:12] Corona Anatine: The stars of the night sky
Among which lie the constellations, the elliptic plane on which the planets move forming the band of the zodiac
Attached to which are several legends and myths.
[12:12] Corona Anatine: The presentation looks at a possible connection between the zodiac and two pieces from the bible
The book of revelations and the book of Ezekiel
[12:12] Corona Anatine: It is possible the whole thing was based upon a dream or hallucination
John mentions wormwood – an ingredient of absinthe and possibly the source of part of his vision
However a vision has to have something to build from
[12:13] Corona Anatine: However both prophets refer to the same thing, and as there is nearly 1000 years between them it is unliklly that they could have had an identical ‘vision’ unless it was of something that exists in the real world that both could witness
As will be shown this is the case
[12:13] Corona Anatine: And I will show that the visions they relate have nothing to do with either ‘God’ except in the minds of the relating ‘prophets’ and modern followers of xianity, or with JF Blumrich’s ‘alien helicopters’.
This dosent mean they cant have those connections – however I can offer a simpler explanation.
[12:14] Gilles Kuhn: may i ask to what part of ezechiel and john you are refering to? or perhaps you will disclose that further
[12:15] Corona Anatine: the vision chapter of ez and the vision imagery of john
[12:15] Corona Anatine: The connection is the chadeans
A culture of the Babylonian in the area who took the israelites captive
A culture with a significant interest in stellar observation
The culture mythology had four genii who supported the four corners of the world, or were its four guardians etc
The chaldean genii had clearly described mythic imagery
[12:15] Corona Anatine: Sed-Alap or Kirub [cherub] represented as a bull with a human head
Lamas or Nigal – a lion with a human head
Ustar had a human likeness
Nattig with the head of an eagle
[12:16] Corona Anatine: the image on the right being an example
[12:16] Corona Anatine: Ezek 1:10 as for the likeness of their faces,
they four had the face of a man,
and the face of a lion – on the right side. [the lion faced right]
And they four had the face of an ox on the left side. [the ox faced left]
They four also had the face of an eagle.
[12:16] Corona Anatine: Chaldean
[12:17] Corona Anatine: Compare with revelations
And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal. [milky way ?]:and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes [stars] before and behind. [The throne being the pole star, the four beasts are constellations.]
[12:17] Gilles Kuhn: indeed and apart of the angel too the symbols of three of the four evangelist
[12:17] Corona Anatine: lol those are soem assocaiations yes
[12:18] Corona Anatine: i know littel of xian symbolism
[12:18] Corona Anatine: The first beast was like a lion Leo [7pm ]
The second beast like a calf Taurus [3pm ]
The third beast had a face as a man Aquarius [1pm]
The fourth beast was like a flying eagle Cygnus?
And the four beasts had each of them six wings, and they were full of eyes within:
Which I think is a reference to the stars seen as eyes during the trance vision
[12:18] Rhiannon of the Birds: Interesting nterpretation; never thought o JOhn as star gazing beffore
[12:19] Corona Anatine: now ty for bring up xian symbolism becaus ethere is anothe link which is at a slight tangent to the mani items here
[12:20] Corona Anatine: but which however may have direct relevance to revelations text
[12:20] Corona Anatine: we know there is a link between christ and soalr mythology
[12:20] Corona Anatine: and
[12:20] Gilles Kuhn: (actually the four beast then correspond perfectly on the four symbols for the four evangelist which is extremely interesting
[12:20] Corona Anatine: revelatiosn talks of the beast 666
[12:21] Corona Anatine: well that is the number o fthe zodaical sqaure of the sun
[12:21] Corona Anatine: which is the sqaure shown on the left
[12:21] Corona Anatine: and ion the right
[12:21] Corona Anatine: is the sigil of the sun sqaure
[12:21] sofa cushion whispers: Hi Chraeloos Resident! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[12:22] Corona Anatine: qwhich is curious as if you imagine those lines superimposed on the dendera zodiac
[12:22] Corona Anatine: it joins four costellations
[12:22] Corona Anatine: The first beast was like a lion Leo [7pm ]
The second beast like a calf Taurus [3pm ]
The third beast had a face as a man Aquarius [1pm]
The fourth beast was like a flying eagle Cygnus?
[12:23] Corona Anatine: a diagonal cross on the dendera zodiaz joins those signs at right angles
[12:24] Gilles Kuhn: there is a constellation of the eagle why use cygnus well name can be variously interpreted
[12:24] Corona Anatine: and the zodaic makes revelations very clear [ ignoring any predictive meaning to them -we may or may not accept the idea – the people at the time these visions wwee written did
[12:25] Corona Anatine: becaause names and assignations vary
[12:25] Rhiannon of the Birds: So are you saying that the basis of Revelation was astrological?
[12:25] Corona Anatine: it is bird like in modern imagery
[12:25] Corona Anatine: but the imagery has deep folklore roots
[12:25] Corona Anatine: And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever.
[12:26] Corona Anatine: which may be a reference to the pole star as in ancient mythology the stars and planets were seen as sitting on thrones
[12:26] Corona Anatine: turning to Ezekeil
[12:27] Corona Anatine: Ezek
1:1-2: Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God. In the fifth day of the month, which was the fifth year of king Jehoiachin’s captivity, 1:4: And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.
So from the very start the text is referring to something seen in the heavens or sky as we now call it.
[12:27] Corona Anatine: there
[12:27] Corona Anatine: a whilrwind form out of the north as a fire unfolding itself
[12:28] Corona Anatine: This identification of the vision as an aurora has been made several times and quite plausible as this observation of the aurora borealis is not alone in being a very low latitude observation – there are records of aurora being seen at Rome and in 1859 the great Carrington Storm produced aurorae that were seen in the Bahamas. It is very difficult to “measure” solar activity per se.
This is probably the result of a very large Coronal Mass Ejection, – of the same size as the Carrington Storm precursor or maybe larger – the picture is slightly hazy because it will depend partly on where the Earth’s magnetic pole was at that time. The Earth’s aurorae tend to occur in a circle around the magnetic pole, which wanders about. If the pole was in the same meridian as Iraq it would take less energy to produce this size of expansion of the auroral oval than if it was elsewhere. All one can really say is that this was probably the sort of event that happens every hundred or few hundred years. Thus the other elements of
[12:28] Corona Anatine: Ezekeil saw an aurora which by the link with with the imagery of revelations was in the sky, this would either be the day or night sky
However the imagery strongly suggests the night sky and the imagery was referring to the constellations of or near the zodiac
As I will now show
[12:29] Corona Anatine: For a better understanding of the books of Revelations and Ezekiel the modern zodiac is of less value than one more contemporary to the civilisations around at the time the bible text was first written.
Hence the Dendera image
[12:30] Corona Anatine: [it is a piThe text states that the vision spoke to him
I am Alpha and Omega
Ignoring the xian association this can also be seen as a
the starting point of the zodiac which is also its end point
[12:30] Corona Anatine: however given the link between the sun and christ it may wel mena both
[12:30] Corona Anatine: an examination makes the zodiac or possibly even astrological conection with revelations very clear
What thou seest, write in a book. And I turned to see seven golden candlesticks.a
And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, And he had in his right hand seven stars:
So the figure of a man has seven stars in its hand
This is probably the Pleiades near the figure of Orion
[12:31] Corona Anatine: and out of his mouth went a sharp two edged sword: and his face was as
the sun shineth in his strength
[12:31] Corona Anatine: this prob manes the words could be takne two ways
[12:32] Corona Anatine: Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter.
I.E. this can be used for astrological prophesy
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks.
The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn.
The traditional planets known in ancient times
The rest of chapter one and all of chapters two and three are irelevant
[12:32] Corona Anatine: sorry to give so much christian text but that is the way of it
[12:32] Corona Anatine: Except for 2:28 ‘And I will give him the morning star’.
Which reinforces the impression that the source of the ‘visions’ were a veiwing of the night sky while in a trance state
The key is from chapter four onwards
Chp 4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven
The stars rose as a specific hour of the constellations
And immediately I was in the spirit
[12:33] Corona Anatine: John went into a [wormwood induced?] trance state
and, behold,a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
He perceived a constellation as a throne with a figure seated on it
Alternatively it is possibly a reference to the pole star
And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was
a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
Under some atmospheric conditions the brighter stars will have a rainbow effect
[12:34] Corona Anatine: And round about the throne were four and twenty seats
The hours of the day
and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment.
Probably a reference to clouds in the sky
and they had on their heads crowns of gold
this may indicte it was evening near sunset when the ‘vision ‘ began the tops /heads of the clouds having refelcted sunlight
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices:
and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne.
A group of seven stars near the constellation, or possibly the seven planets of the ecliptic plane.
which are the seven Spirits of God.
[12:34] Gilles Kuhn: ahem that (star with rainbow effect) its impossible a star colour perceived colour however can vary due to athmospheric conditions
[12:34] Corona Anatine: the stars of course were regarded as deities by the ancient Egytpians
[12:35] Corona Anatine: [ or part of his trance / drug visions
[12:35] Corona Anatine: It is possible that nephilim [the fallen ones] is a reference to the stars which set, as opposed to the stars which never set – the circumpolar stars.
[12:35] Corona Anatine: but i dont aim to prusue that thread here
[12:36] Corona Anatine: The book Of Revelations. Chp 5 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
[12:36] Corona Anatine: The stars may be read as a book, if the secrets of astrology are known, the key to which is the seven planets] Also in an ancient context ‘book’ would have meant scroll, a closer metaphor to the stars passing overhead than the modern concept of ‘book’.
[12:36] Corona Anatine: And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. [only the select few with access to the hidden knowledge can read the stars as a book and predict astrologically]. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the
[12:36] Bryce Galbraith: How should the ‘seven seals’ be read?
[12:37] Rhiannon of the Birds: Gilles, that is what Corona meant; the way the stars are perceived is through an atmosphere
[12:37] Corona Anatine: i see it as a ref to astrological knowledge however my knowledge of astology is fairly m limited
[12:37] Corona Anatine: four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain.
[12:38] Corona Anatine: which I see as a ref to Aries as it fits the sequnce
[12:38] Rhiannon of the Birds: Well, you make a good case, and astrology was widely read and understood by the scholars of the scriptures back then
[12:38] Corona Anatine: And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. The stars shall rule the fate of men. And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts
[12:39] Corona Anatine: i wil push relantless onwards to keep this in a good trime limit
[12:39] Rhiannon of the Birds: My only objection so far is for you to say it’s a “wormwood induced hallucination.” Even modern psychedelics, like peyote and Magic Mushrooms, are said to have veridical content. Let’s not beg questions
[12:39] Gilles Kuhn: ahem the lamb is the figure of the sacrificial lamb i e the christ which btw in heraldic are the christ shield (the lamb wearing a standart with a crosss)
[12:39] Corona Anatine: and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands.
The multitude of stars?
[12:40] Corona Anatine: And every creature which is in heaven, [the constellations of the zodiac, which in hebrew are called ‘nazaroth’. Canst thou bind the sweet [astrological] influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
Canst thou bring forth Nazaroth in his season? Job 23
Jesus of the zodiac Historically the town of Nazareth did not exist until the third centrury CE, there being no such town in Galilee during Djoshua ben Djusefs life.
So therefore it is impossible for him to have been born in or have come from a town of that name. However in hebrew the word nazoroth or nazereth refers to the zodiac. The implications of this for a religion which purports to condemn astrology and fortune telling are left to xians to ponder.
However the prohibition on astrology comes from the beginning chapters of the bible, by Ezekiels time the israelites had been influenced by the Chaldeans for many decades, and by the time of John further influenced by the Romans.
[12:40] Gilles Kuhn: now aries is just up Orion the hunter so indeed there is symbolism as the bull being sacrificed
[12:40] Corona Anatine: there ar emany links between christ and solar mytholgy so another link would not surprise me
[12:41] Corona Anatine: Because the visions in the book are based upon the steller constellations, what the prophet states he heard can be ignored as voices in his head. The visions are also but being based upon something which exists in the shared physical universe, the basis for the seen aspects of the vision can be usefully ascertained.
[12:41] Corona Anatine: And I saw when the Lamb [aries] opened one of the seals. In traditional western astrology each sign is ruled by one and only one of the seven visible planets.
[12:42] Corona Anatine: exceuse if i dont change aries
[12:42] Bryce Galbraith: ah, okay…
[12:42] Gilles Kuhn: and sorry aries is not the bull my mistake
[12:42] Corona Anatine: These are perhaps the seven seals mentioned by revelations.
[12:42] Corona Anatine: And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.Sagittarius
[12:42] Corona Anatine: In the Egyptian zodiac Sagittarius wears a crown
[12:43] Corona Anatine: And there went out another horse that was red, [unclear which constellation this is,] and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth,
[The stars have power over men], and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
[12:43] Corona Anatine: And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. [Libra]. On the basis that the white horse of rev 6:02 is Sagittarius, and the black horse of 6:05 is Libra, then the red horse would be a constellation between them.One possible is Perseus, as it has a sword, is associated with death, and the main star Algol is red.
[12:43] Corona Anatine: However it does not lie between Sagittarius and Libra, although such may not have been important in the original ‘vision’ of course.
Algol [hebrew Rosh ha Satan, ‘Satan’s Head] ‘is supposedly the most unfortunate and dangerous star in the sky, and reputed to cause violence and unnatural death. And I looked, and behold a pale horse:and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. [Astrological power of the stars over the lives of men].
This constellation is also unclear, but might be scorpio, which by ancient tradition rules the cycle of life, death and birth, and many of the associated myths reflect this.
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood. [Hard to read this, possibly some atmospheric effect, or perhap
[12:44] Corona Anatine: ok while you read that i wil edit the images
[12:45] Corona Anatine: The book Of Revelations.Chp 7 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, [a star or constellation rose in the east as the earth turned] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. This appears to be equating the stars in the sky with the count of the tribal numbers. After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, [The uncountable stars.]
[12:45] Gilles Kuhn: for notice algol mean in arabic the eyes of the devil and its a variable star its magnitude vary but regularily due to an orbiting companion but that reason was unknow to the ancient
[12:46] Corona Anatine: I wil move pass chapter 8 – it may be a ref to a comet – however the exact detail are unclear and it shortend the presentation a little
[12:46] Rhiannon of the Birds: Well, no man could number? Carl Sagan came close. “billions and billions.” lol
[12:46] Bryce Galbraith: 🙂
[12:46] Corona Anatine: The book Of Revelations.Chp 9 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth.
[Another reference to the stars setting as the earth rotated] And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. Possibly one of the bright stars in scorpio, possibly the planet venus. Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates, the river is possibly a reference to the milky way, and the four angels would thus be the constellations Auriga , Perseus, Cygnus and Aquila.
The determination of which constellations are referred to in chapters 8 and 9 is problematic.
[12:47] Corona Anatine: And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, [the stars set as the earth rotated] clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth. And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, [tentatively identifiable as Orion].
[12:47] Gilles Kuhn: (sorry phone)
[12:47] Corona Anatine: sporry to be so fast in the turn over of chat
[12:48] Rhiannon of the Birds: Just give us a minute to catch our breath and it will beok, Corona
[12:48] Corona Anatine: And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman [virgo] clothed with the sun, [near to the ecliptic] and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: [coma berenices or possibly Corona Bor] And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: [The constellation Hydra] and the dragon [hydra] stood before [rose in the sky prior to] the woman [virgo] which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels [Gemini?] fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. [the constellations set in the west below the horizon].
And the great dragon was cast out, that old s
[12:48] Corona Anatine: this paragraph i think is shown in the iamage on the right
[12:48] Rhiannon of the BirdsRhiannon of the Birds thinks she’s clothed with the sun right now
[12:48] Corona Anatine: the figure battles the seperent
[12:48] Corona Anatine: serpent
[12:49] Corona Anatine: Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. [the zodiac]
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, [possibly a reference to bootes and corvus.] and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. The constellation Hydra- the flood from its mouth being the
Milky Way, which is nearby in the sky.
[12:49] Corona Anatine: The book Of Revelations.Chp 13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, [another constellation rises in the east – following on from hydra so tentatively identified as centaurus] having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast [centaurus] which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. [So adjacent to Hydra]
[12:50] Corona Anatine: the next peice is possibly a ref to astrological influences on humans so i will pass over to the next peice
[12:50] Corona Anatine: Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. [A reference to numerological astrology]
The sum of the first 36 numbers is 666, this is 6 by 6 which is the square of the sun
[12:51] Corona Anatine: and i found this online earleier today=
[12:51] Rhiannon of the Birds: And when assigned numbers, as they did to letters, spells out NERO.
[12:51] Corona Anatine: The earliest Christians were converted pagans. One of the arguments the early Church used to convert pagans to Christianity was that Jesus Christ had more solar attributes than any other god. His face was even reputed to shine like the sun (Matt 17:2). Examining the metaphorical logic of equating Jesus with Helios the Sun, one has to ask … is there any kind of logical reason or secret knowledge that the early Gnostic Christians were aware of to make these kind of comparisons? Is there some kind of a link between the raised Jesus (8880) and the Magic Square of the Sun whose number is 666?
[12:52] Corona Anatine: And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, [another constellation rises in the east] and with him an hundred forty and four thousand [stars]. And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, And there followed another angel, and the third angel followed them. [A sequence of three constellations] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. The sickle reference may mean this is the plough constellation.
However it could easily be another.
As the chapter count advances it becomes increasingly difficult to determine which constellation is referred to in the text.
[12:52] Rhiannon of the Birds: The Zoroastrian notion of the equality of Good and Eveil come to mind, and the three wise men were probably Zoroastrians.
[12:52] Corona Anatine: This may be because the author is referring to lesser constellations, or it might be due to the text being derived from a different nights observation
[12:52] Corona Anatine: And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, [the constellation (the plough) sets below the horizon] and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. [perhaps the name of a constellation]. And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, [another constellation rises in the east] he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, [another constellation rises in the east].
[12:53] Corona Anatine: And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. [another constellation rises in the east, perhaps the pleiades?]
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, [something atmospheric? perhaps an aurora? By this time theconstellations are no longer so clear, and sufficient time had probabby passed that this sea of glass might be a reference to the first pre dawn light]
[12:53] Corona Anatine: After chapter 15 the text becomes difficult to equate with the constellations
[12:53] Corona Anatine: However that the underlying theme is still based upon the night sky, is shown by several verses.
[12:54] Corona Anatine: The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: [the stars rise and set?]
[12:54] Corona Anatine: And there are seven kings: [ the seven planets] five are fallen, [set] and one is, [the morning star, venus] and the other is not yet come; [the sun] and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. [An eighth object in the sky?
[12:55] Corona Anatine: 20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. The old serpent might be the constellation hydra or is possibly a reference to the milky way, which is equated with a serpent in many myths of the region. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
This is probaby a reference to the night starting to end, the stars receeding as the dawn light came on. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon th
[12:55] Corona Anatine: The book Of Revelations.Chp 21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
And he that sat upon the throne said, behold, I make all things new
[12:55] Corona Anatine: This is tentatively identified as the first light of dawn described with a lot of mythological/esoteric symbolism.
[12:55] Corona Anatine: The book Of Revelations.Chp 22 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
This is tentatively identified as the sun rising at dawn described with a lot of mythological symbolism. And there shall be no night there. [At dawn QED]
[12:56] Corona Anatine: I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. So Jesus is the morning star which is Lucifer, also known as Satan. So according to the bible Jesus is Satan [sic]
[12:56] Corona Anatine: ?
[12:56] Bryce Galbraith: interesting….
[12:56] Rhiannon of the Birds: Corona, well, the connection between 666 and the divine number–again Zoroastrianism
[12:56] Bryce Galbraith: I’m afraid I need to head out, but thanks for the presentation! You’ve clearly done your research here and made a compelling case overall I think. 🙂
[12:57] Rhiannon of the Birds: TC, Bryce
[12:57] Split Tip Jar: Thank you Bryce Galbraith for your very generous donation.
[12:57] Corona Anatine: so in conclusion the visions cna be shown to havea natural expalnation which make sboth clear
[12:57] Chraeloos: Thanks for coming Bryce
[12:57] Rhiannon of the Birds: Yes, it’s a great case, Corona. Better than Edgar Cayce’s interpretation by far
[12:57] Corona Anatine: thank you al for listening
[12:57] Rhiannon of the Birds: Well, but the visions could be sublated–from the natural to the spiritual; doesn’t deny their validity in the slightest
[12:57] Chraeloos: Thank you Corona, that was great.
[12:58] Chraeloos: If you are interested in keeping up to date feel free to check out our blog: http://www.epithetandsynonym.info/
Our website is also a great way to stay up to date: http://www.epithetandsynonym.biz/
Event Calendar: http://www.epithetandsynonym.biz/apps/calendar/
Thanks for coming!
[12:58] Corona Anatine: it is a complex subject and i have prob only touched the surfcae of the exoteric meanings
[12:58] Chraeloos: People have spent their entire lives studying the link, I’m sure
[12:59] Corona Anatine: lol im sure they have
[12:59] Rhiannon of the Birds: And you’re unduoubtedly right that theere is an astrological substratum here. and you touch upon the numerological one.
[12:59] Corona Anatine: but i feel i can at least explain the source of the visions
[12:59] Corona Anatine: the pattern is there
[12:59] Rhiannon of the Birds: And Cayce could still be right that it was an esoteric shorthand for Chinese medicine
[12:59] Chraeloos: You make a very convincing argument
[12:59] Corona Anatine: what they saw in the sky
[13:00] Rhiannon of the Birds: And the Leyhe argument that it only makes sense as future history is still not precluded
[13:00] Corona Anatine: what they saw as the meaning behind the visions is probably much harder to reach
[13:00] Rhiannon of the Birds: Corona, yes. That’s where everyone from Cacyce to Leyhe can be right.
[13:00] Rhiannon of the Birds: But you show the foundation.
[13:00] Corona Anatine: as christainity then is totally alein to the modern version
[13:01] Corona Anatine: but the fact that both ezekeil and John describe the sem things points to it being somethign that is visible to us
[13:02] Corona Anatine: which we can determine
[13:02] Chraeloos: assuming the sky looks the same now
[13:02] Corona Anatine: oh for the period covered it would
[13:03] Rhiannon of the Birds: Oh, i got to run. Just remembered, there is an event I’m co hosting starting now.
[13:03] Corona Anatine: john is early first millenium CE
[13:03] Rhiannon of the Birds: oops.
[13:03] Corona Anatine: ezekeil 500 bce
[13:03] Rhiannon of the Birds: SDolphin’s talk on Chinese nutrition
[13:03] Corona Anatine: oh that seasy
[13:03] Rhiannon of the Birds: Thanks Corona!
[13:03] Corona Anatine: if it moves they eat it
[13:03] Chraeloos: Thanks for coming Rhia
[13:03] Rhiannon of the Birds: Bye, Karl, Chrae,Gilles,
[13:03] Rhiannon of the Birds: oh, my pleasure
[13:04] *SandBrocade II Ottoman Blk Pld whispers: Hi Corona Anatine! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[13:04] sofa cushion whispers: Hi Karlingo Lorefield! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[13:04] Karlingo Lorefield: Corona, as always that was esquisite
[13:04] Corona Anatine: ty
[13:05] Chraeloos: Yes very well done Corona, thanks again
[13:05] Corona Anatine: it is a complex subject to unravel
[13:05] Chraeloos: No kidding
[13:05] Corona Anatine: cos there are so many side links to other topics
[13:05] Corona Anatine: and the jesus/ solor god cross shading
[13:06] Corona Anatine: but i feel sure im on the right track -cos the more i find the stronger the connectionms seem to be
[13:06] Corona Anatine: usually a sign of being on the right road
[13:07] Karlingo Lorefield: thats a good point
[13:07] Corona Anatine: is like at uni when the study starts to come togehter
[13:07] Karlingo Lorefield: Knowing where the road forks is where the focus should be, right?
[13:08] Corona Anatine: yeh to an extent
[13:08] Corona Anatine: a lot of side forks are dead ends tho
[13:08] Karlingo Lorefield: myxtc, you ok on the floor there?
[13:08] Chraeloos: I think she’s afk
[13:08] Gilles Kuhn: but indeed astrological symbolism was a very used hermeneutic in antiquity and directed at cultivated classes whioch ezxplain why john which in his gospel was theological in the extreme used it to communicate christian doctrine in his revelation
[13:08] Chraeloos: said she just wanted the chat log to read later
[13:08] Corona Anatine: and in some ways its the reverse the roads joins rather than parts
[13:09] Corona Anatine: it also perhasp throws light on crowleys claim to be 666
[13:09] Corona Anatine: he would have known the link between christ and 666
[13:09] Corona Anatine: and may well have bene claiming kinship
[13:10] Corona Anatine: and the name great beast
[13:10] Corona Anatine: that would fit with the beasts being stars and constellations
[13:10] Corona Anatine: the greast beast being the sun as opposed o teh lesser beast s or planets
[13:11] Corona Anatine: but that is moving away from scientific conections into occult territory
[13:12] Karlingo Lorefield: I can see that I shall get confused rather quickly.
[13:12] Chraeloos: lol
[13:12] Chraeloos: I like this idea a lot, hadn’t considered it before
[13:12] Corona Anatine: oh it best to avoid that topic as this is not a wiccan moot whre they like such things
[13:12] Chraeloos: true
[13:13] Corona Anatine: but in occult lore everything can be connected with everything else
[13:13] Corona Anatine: lime a sorrt of all embracing conspiracy theory
[13:13] Karlingo Lorefield: is the etymology of occult edicts clear historically?
[13:13] Corona Anatine: threads can be traced
[13:14] Corona Anatine: but they can get very convulated
[13:14] Karlingo Lorefield: I can imagine that non conformity plays a strong thread through the timeline
[13:15] Corona Anatine: an dthe subject matter – myth changes a sthe obsvere does
[13:15] Corona Anatine: which is why i mainly stuck with the underlying nature the visions seem to be based upon
[13:16] Corona Anatine: avoiding the magico-religious meanings
[13:16] Corona Anatine: which are like a tesseract
[13:16] Gilles Kuhn: (and sorry my phone impeached me to comment after the formal part
[13:16] Gilles Kuhn: )
[13:17] Corona Anatine: no worries your comments are alwasy good
[13:17] Chraeloos: No problem Gilles
[13:19] Gilles Kuhn: and corona the four symbolic figure for the evangelist are the eagle for john the angel for matthew the lion for marc and the bull for st luke