As a first post I figured it would be suitable to introduce myself a bit. I’m Chraeloos, Chrae for short. I am the Online Services and Marketing Manager for Epithet and Synonym Literary Co. Basically, what I do is create events, network, and marketing. So far, we’ve had a lot of fun figuring out where this company is going to go. At the moment I’m looking for people to volunteer either their writing (non-fiction at this point) or their time and minds to a Literary Review Team. If you volunteer your writing you will have the chance to get edited and published through E&S. If you join the review team you will be the ones that do the editing. It should be a lot of fun, and I’m hoping to get about five people (not including the E&S staff) involved. If you are interested please do email me at laurajones@epithetandsynonym.biz or chraeloos@gmail.com. We also have a few lecturers giving presentations on a regular basis in the new year. Check our calendar or contact me for more information.

Otherwise, I’m very interested in philosophy and science. Theoretical science, mostly, since my brain tends to work in a more artsy, philosophical way. I’m regularly on SL, mostly because I’m a freelancer so I’m always home. Also, I’m a hermit so I don’t leave the house unless I have to. Which, unfortunately, is often. However – I live beside the ocean so I can’t complain. Usually when I leave the house it’s because my partner and I are going on late-night walks along the seawall or going to have coffee and do a crossword. Or, you know, groceries.

Funny thing about all this is that technology and I don’t get along. Things tend to break for no reason when I’m around, including internet connections, stoves, and SL. Yes, this causes some safety concern but so far we’re still around so it’s all good.

I’m hoping that this blog will be a personal view on E&S, philosophy and science discussions in SL, and my own personal thoughts. I’ve never been very good with blog consistency, so don’t mind if I disappear for a while, I’ll come back…likely.

First things first, I’d like to share the first ever discussion I moderated on SL. I have not changed anything, including typos, so don’t mind the mess. This occurred on December 13th, 2011.

[10:08] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): This is nice by the fire.
[10:08] druth Vlodovic: I didn’t say it worked πŸ™‚
[10:08] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone)Rhiannon of the Birds laughs
[10:08] Chraeloos: lol
[10:08] Chraeloos: yeah, if you set the sun to midnight it’s even better πŸ™‚
[10:08] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): oh, yeah, creates a glow.
[10:09] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): It’s a good sit ani too, makes it look like you’re contemplating the fire
[10:09] Chraeloos: Well I wont be reading my own things today, besides maybe a poem or two, so if you two have someone else’s work you’d like to read that’s fine as well.
[10:12] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Here’s darcon.
[10:12] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): he wanted a tp, and i gave him one.
[10:12] Chraeloos: Hi darcon!
[10:12] darcon Xue: Hi Rhia love πŸ™‚
[10:12] Chraeloos: Thanks for coming πŸ™‚
[10:12] druth Vlodovic: hi darcon
[10:12] darcon Xue: Hi loves πŸ™‚
[10:13] darcon Xue: Thank you for allowing us to be here with you Chrael love πŸ™‚
[10:13] Chraeloos: Any time πŸ™‚ E&S is always open for visitors.
[10:14] Chraeloos: Hello Richard!
[10:14] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Richard!
[10:14] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Well, Chraeloos, druth, don’t say I never gave you anything…
[10:14] Richard Winstanley: Hello Rhia
[10:14] Chraeloos: haha thank you so much Rhi πŸ™‚
[10:14] Richard Winstanley: Hello Chraeloos
[10:14] Richard Winstanley: Hello everyone
[10:14] Chraeloos: Thanks for coming πŸ™‚
[10:15] Richard Winstanley: Thanks for the invite
[10:15] Richard Winstanley: Nice fire
[10:15] Chraeloos: It’s best if the environment is set to midnight πŸ™‚
[10:15] Chraeloos: Hi Solik!
[10:15] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi solik!
[10:15] solik Bayard: ***HeLLo aLL***))!!
[10:15] darcon Xue: Hi loves πŸ˜€
[10:15] Richard Winstanley: Hello Solik
[10:16] Chraeloos: Alright shall we get started? This will be my first time using voice, so bear with me
[10:17] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Should I turn off the music stream?
[10:17] Chraeloos: Hello Alexi!
[10:17] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Hi Alexi!
[10:17] Chraeloos: Sure Rhi that would be lovely thank you
[10:17] solik Bayard: Hi Alex!*)
[10:17] Alexi Flux: Oh Hi Rhi
[10:17] Alexi Flux: Hi everyone
[10:17] Richard Winstanley: Hello Alexi
[10:18] darcon Xue: Hi Alexi love πŸ™‚
[10:18] Alexi Flux: I thought I was in group chat
[10:18] Richard Winstanley: Yes
[10:18] druth Vlodovic: yep
[10:18] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): yes, loud and clear
[10:18] solik Bayard: yes fine!*)
[10:18] darcon Xue: yes πŸ™‚
[10:22] Alexi Flux: I think all this must be in sound, and I have media turned off
[10:22] Alexi Flux: Have I construed right, anyone?
[10:22] Richard Winstanley: It is voice Alexi
[10:22] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Alexi, yes, Chraeloos is speaking in voice. You don’t have to, though
[10:23] Alexi Flux: Oh that’s bad for me then, cos I am on miobile and break through the ceiling and get strangled
[10:23] Alexi Flux: Oh well, I best come back when I am on cable sometime
[10:24] Alexi Flux: Thanks for the info, anyway
[10:24] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): ty
[10:25] Alexi Flux: Keep safe everyone, see you another time
[10:25] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): bye, Alexi
[10:25] Richard Winstanley: Same to you Alexi
[10:25] Richard Winstanley: Take care
[10:25] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Bravo!
[10:25] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I love Yeats
[10:25] solik Bayard: claps*
[10:25] solik Bayard: * claps
[10:26] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): He doesn’t stink…
[10:26] darcon Xue: πŸ™‚
[10:27] darcon Xue: πŸ˜€
[10:28] darcon Xue: Thank you love πŸ™‚
[10:28] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): yes, very beautiful
[10:29] Richard Winstanley: Claps
[10:30] Chraeloos: -claps-
[10:30] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone)Rhiannon of the Birds claps
[10:30] Chraeloos: Very nice!
[10:30] darcon Xue: Claps
[10:30] darcon Xue: πŸ™‚
[10:30] solik Bayard: merci)*
[10:30] solik Bayard: thank you) *
[10:30] Richard Winstanley: Very nice
[10:30] Chraeloos: Anyone else want to read something?
[10:30] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I’m having trouble with my volume adjustment, so can people who voice please speak up a little.
[10:30] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Thanks
[10:31] Chraeloos: Sure
[10:31] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): like the title
[10:32] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): oh, i like that ‘explosion like a thousand red birds”
[10:32] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Very vivid
[10:32] darcon Xue: πŸ™‚
[10:34] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): OMG! That was quoted by Adolf Hitler; he may even be the author. Wow!
[10:34] darcon Xue: πŸ˜€
[10:34] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yeah, he thought that described the problem Germany faced.
[10:35] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): “The Center will not hold,” very famous line.
[10:35] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): hi pwernt!
[10:35] pwernt Adamczyk: heyhey
[10:35] Chraeloos: hello
[10:35] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Sounds like CArl.
[10:35] Richard Winstanley: But how would we view it if we didn’t know the author?
[10:36] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Richard, that’s the point
[10:36] Richard Winstanley: Exactly
[10:37] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): That sounds like Plato on the sophists.
[10:38] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yeah, I meant only that Carl likes to present things in a way that brings out thought, not that he wrote it.
[10:39] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone)Rhiannon of the Birds claps
[10:39] solik Bayard: claps*
[10:39] solik Bayard: * claps
[10:39] darcon Xue: claps πŸ™‚
[10:39] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): nice, pithy expression, but very full of meaning and emotion
[10:39] Richard Winstanley: claps
[10:39] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): oh, oh
[10:44] solik Bayard: i’ve a few words of mine ‘ bout the ” charm” if u desire listening it!?
[10:46] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Wow
[10:46] darcon Xue: πŸ™‚
[10:46] Richard Winstanley: An interesting perspective
[10:46] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Thanks for sharing that with us, Ch
[10:46] solik Bayard: nice*
[10:46] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Yeah, and it explains Dick’s novels to me
[10:46] Richard Winstanley: I don’t necessarily go with it all
[10:46] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I have to leave soon.
[10:47] Chraeloos: Alright Rhi, thanks so much for coming!
[10:48] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): Thank you, solik!
[10:48] ChraeloosChraeloos claps
[10:48] Richard Winstanley: Claps
[10:48] darcon Xue: claps πŸ™‚
[10:48] Chraeloos: that was beautiful
[10:48] Richard Winstanley: A romantic writer! The accent goes with it
[10:48] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone): I have to go now, take care Chraeloos, darcon, Richard, druth
[10:48] druth Vlodovic: have fun rhi
[10:48] solik Bayard: et pas enrhumΓ©!**smile*
[10:48] solik Bayard: and not a cold! ** smile *
[10:48] Chraeloos: Agreed Richard haha the accent helps a lot
[10:48] darcon Xue: Have a nice time Rhia love πŸ™‚
[10:49] Richard Winstanley: You take care Rhia
[10:49] darcon Xue: Thank you for alllwoing us to be with you:-)
[10:49] Chraeloos: Take care Rhia
[10:49] Rhiannon of the Birds (rhiannon.dragoone)Rhiannon of the Birds waves and poofs
[10:49] Richard Winstanley: Bye
[10:50] Chraeloos: For philosophy I personally prefer text, is everyone okay with that?
[10:50] darcon Xue: I agree with you πŸ™‚
[10:50] druth Vlodovic: you could make any one of the things you read the centre of a discussion
[10:50] Chraeloos: Fantastic πŸ™‚
[10:50] solik Bayard: ok*
[10:50] Chraeloos: Yes, druth, that is very true
[10:50] Richard Winstanley: Shall we discuss the essay?
[10:50] Chraeloos: I was kind of hoping all of them would work together. I tried to choose things that involved reality and perspecitve
[10:51] Chraeloos: Yes, the essay was the main point
[10:51] Richard Winstanley: It’s a good starting point and the most debatable I think
[10:51] Richard Winstanley: He seems to think we share realities
[10:52] Chraeloos: So the question we must address is that of reality, of creating realities and the fact that they are built around us.
[10:52] solik Bayard: must leave, bye & thxs all!*)
[10:52] Chraeloos: Thanks solik
[10:52] Richard Winstanley: Do we create realities?
[10:52] Chraeloos: Have a good one
[10:52] Chraeloos: I think in a way we do
[10:52] druth Vlodovic: our realities intersect, at least, or communication would be impossible
[10:52] Richard Winstanley: How is that Chraeloos?
[10:53] Chraeloos: I think that everyone experiences things differently. I know if I’m in a bad mood, the world is a different place.
[10:53] Richard Winstanley: Our consciousness communicates
[10:53] darcon Xue: yes, each one is universe unique
[10:53] Richard Winstanley: I agree Chraeloos
[10:53] Chraeloos: It’s kind of like Plato’s theory of forms. There are basic things that exist, but we know them by what we make them. We title things and give them descriptions, but different people may disagree.
[10:53] Richard Winstanley: we all have different realities
[10:53] Chraeloos: Rich druth they must intersect
[10:54] Chraeloos: *Right
[10:54] Richard Winstanley: We intersect in the universe surely?
[10:54] darcon Xue: when you open your yes the universe looks in to you
[10:54] druth Vlodovic: the thing he said about TV is interesting
[10:55] Richard Winstanley: Only one universe, but we all have different realities
[10:55] druth Vlodovic: shows have the reality they present, and more compelling, is the reality they assume
[10:55] Chraeloos: That’s poetic darcon, I like that.
[10:55] Chraeloos: What do you mean, though?
[10:55] druth Vlodovic: in order to understand the show you have to suspend disbelief and assume the same relity
[10:55] Chraeloos: That the universe is alive?
[10:56] darcon Xue: universe is your creation
[10:56] Richard Winstanley: I assume you know my meaning of the universe
[10:56] darcon Xue: there is only one here in this roon
[10:56] Chraeloos: Agreed druth, it is entirely up to the viewer how they see and react.
[10:56] druth Vlodovic: by taking on their assumption, even “temporarily” it alters the way you see the world
[10:56] Chraeloos: yes Richard, I do.
[10:56] Richard Winstanley: Whose’s world?
[10:57] Richard Winstanley: *who’s
[10:57] druth Vlodovic: your own obviously πŸ™‚ and how you change the worlds of others
[10:57] darcon Xue: πŸ™‚
[10:57] Richard Winstanley: Sorry, I call that realities not worlds
[10:58] Chraeloos: Good point Richard. Linguists plays into everything yet again.
[10:58] druth Vlodovic: fir enough, I’ll try to keep my terms straight
[10:58] Chraeloos: *linguistics
[10:58] Richard Winstanley: NP just so that I know
[10:58] darcon Xue: reality is love, any other thing is ilusion πŸ™‚
[10:58] Richard Winstanley: That is a great point Darcon
[10:58] Chraeloos: Definitely πŸ™‚
[10:59] Richard Winstanley: Love is above everything
[10:59] Chraeloos: love defines us and how we experience everything
[10:59] darcon Xue: and love only can be in the now πŸ™‚
[10:59] Chraeloos: that brings up a whole time dispute.
[10:59] Chraeloos: Is time linear? etc.
[10:59] Richard Winstanley: that is the only thing that really transcends realities
[11:00] Richard Winstanley: I really don’t believe in time
[11:00] druth Vlodovic: ah “now” versus then and coming up, only “now” exists in real terms
[11:00] Richard Winstanley: That’s just part of our reality
[11:00] Chraeloos: I agree Richard.
[11:00] Chraeloos: We couldn’t experience things if time wasn’t linear, at least not with the way our brains work.
[11:00] druth Vlodovic: the past and future are more imaginary even than now is
[11:00] Chraeloos: Perhaps other creatures might not see time as linear
[11:01] Richard Winstanley: Mmm I just think time is in my reality but doesn’t really exist
[11:01] Chraeloos: Think about memories. Some are more prominent then events happening currently.
[11:01] Chraeloos: Hello Karl!
[11:01] Richard Winstanley: True Chrealoos
[11:01] druth Vlodovic: but the memory itself is happening now in your mind
[11:02] Chraeloos: Exactly
[11:02] Richard Winstanley: Hello Karl
[11:02] Richard Winstanley: In our consciousness not mind
[11:02] darcon Xue: some time I have what they tell “deja vu”
[11:02] Chraeloos: So who’s to say it isn’t all happening at once, and the way we choose to view it makes it appear linear?
[11:02] druth Vlodovic: it has been shown that memories can be changed in content and emotional reaction by being “relived” frequently
[11:02] Chraeloos: Very true druth.
[11:02] Chraeloos: That we can alter what we remember so much that we believe it
[11:03] Chraeloos: It’s a valid point, I know personally that other people don’t always remember things the way I did.
[11:03] Richard Winstanley: Exactly Chraeloos
[11:03] Chraeloos: And we tend to remember the events that were highly emotional moreso than others.
[11:04] Chraeloos: Ones that leave an impression on US. So of course they will be different because we were emotionally involved, which changes it for us.
[11:04] druth Vlodovic: why politicians try to make everything a disaster, so that we will have an emotional reaction that includes them
[11:05] Chraeloos: That’s a good point, I hadn’t thought of that before
[11:05] Karlingo Lorefield: Hello everybody
[11:05] Chraeloos: Hi Karl πŸ™‚
[11:05] darcon Xue: yes, you all
[11:05] druth Vlodovic: hi karl
[11:05] darcon Xue: Hi Karl love πŸ™‚
[11:05] Richard Winstanley: they play on things that scare us in our realities
[11:05] Karlingo Lorefield: I wont disturb you all, I have a japanese lesson here later, and am fidding with the windows and stuff….
[11:05] Chraeloos: Doesn’t everyone in a position of power (or trying to get to a position of power)?
[11:05] Karlingo Lorefield: so will just sit about πŸ™‚
[11:05] Chraeloos: You can join in Karl haha
[11:06] Karlingo Lorefield: πŸ™‚
[11:06] darcon Xue: πŸ™‚
[11:06] Chraeloos: It’s like in the essay when he mentioned that these people are building “realities” and setting up beliefs through electronic and personal mediums.
[11:06] Richard Winstanley: I think ‘building’ is an incorrect term
[11:06] druth Vlodovic: “power” is really just other people working towards your own benefit
[11:07] druth Vlodovic: so to hold power just means to affect how people behave
[11:07] Chraeloos: Richard, what term do you think fits better?
[11:07] Richard Winstanley: People who want power, haven’t really got it
[11:07] Chraeloos: I agree druth.
[11:07] Chraeloos: People have power because we allow them to push us around, essentially.
[11:08] Richard Winstanley: The reality is there, already built
[11:08] darcon Xue: the power is give to serve better the other ones
[11:08] Chraeloos: So Richard, you’re saying that reality already exists and it is merely experienced?
[11:08] druth Vlodovic: to build often means to find the tools and materials and put them together in a new shape
[11:09] Richard Winstanley: We all have our own separate realities
[11:09] Richard Winstanley: We can’t modify them
[11:09] Chraeloos: But our perception is already modifying them
[11:09] druth Vlodovic: but if i can find elements of your reality, and cause you to reshape them, then i can determine, or even cause, your actions
[11:10] Chraeloos: Yes druth, that’s what I meant. They are constructing these points of view for us to interpret, hoping to bend our “realities”
[11:10] Richard Winstanley: Our consciousnesses where meant to meet today
[11:10] Richard Winstanley: I don’t believe in accidents
[11:10] druth Vlodovic: “can’t modify them”? I’m afraid that would be a hard thing to sell to me πŸ™‚
[11:10] Richard Winstanley: I think that way too Druth
[11:10] Richard Winstanley: Excuse the typos
[11:11] Karlingo Lorefield: darcon…
[11:11] Karlingo Lorefield: would you like a book to go with that pose?
[11:11] Karlingo Lorefield: it looks like youre stroking “invisi-cat”
[11:11] Richard Winstanley: To me, what we call RL is just a very sophisticated SL
[11:12] Chraeloos: Okay yes but like you said “cause you to reshape them”
[11:12] darcon Xue: lol
[11:12] Chraeloos: I agree Richard
[11:12] darcon Xue: I wil change
[11:12] sofa cushion whispers: Hi darcon Xue! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[11:12] druth Vlodovic: bye bye invisi-cat
[11:12] darcon Xue: πŸ˜€
[11:12] Karlingo Lorefield: there you go
[11:12] Karlingo Lorefield: for next time you use it πŸ™‚
[11:12] druth Vlodovic: ty
[11:13] Chraeloos: haha nice
[11:13] Chraeloos: Richard, not wanting to make this religious, just curious, do you think someone or something simulated this?
[11:13] sofa cushion whispers: Hi darcon Xue! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[11:13] druth Vlodovic: so if we can’t modify our reality then you believe in a fate, and we just experience parts of a pre-existing reality?
[11:14] sofa cushion whispers: Hi darcon Xue! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[11:14] Richard Winstanley: I believe in God, but not as other’s might perceive it
[11:14] Chraeloos: Alright
[11:14] druth Vlodovic: (someday I’ll remember to look at the screen before hitting the enter key, no really, I swear I will!)
[11:14] Chraeloos: haha druth no worries πŸ™‚
[11:14] Richard Winstanley: The realities are not pre-existing
[11:14] Richard Winstanley: As there is no time
[11:15] Chraeloos: Right I agree with that Richard
[11:15] Richard Winstanley: I’m glad someone agrees as usually people think I’m nuts
[11:15] druth Vlodovic: if I put my finger in a ruler I can talk about certain numbers being “before” or “after” my finger, even though they co-exist in time
[11:16] Karlingo Lorefield: raises hands “im nuts”
[11:16] Chraeloos: haha Karl
[11:16] druth Vlodovic: the purpose of communication is not to say what is true but to cause others to think truth
[11:16] Richard Winstanley: That’s in your reality Druth
[11:16] Chraeloos: But time is not a solid object
[11:16] Chraeloos: regardless of whose reality it is in
[11:16] Richard Winstanley: Now we are on time again
[11:16] Chraeloos: ah druth nice one
[11:16] druth Vlodovic: but if there is no time then my reality is a sort of object of which I am only seeing this one part
[11:16] Chraeloos: reality and time coincide I think
[11:17] Richard Winstanley: Time is just an illusion to help us in our realities
[11:17] Chraeloos: It’s like a rubics cube. Turn it over and there’s something different. You can change the color-patterns and such, but how you experience it is different than the next person
[11:17] druth Vlodovic: maybe our preference for predictability forces us to experience a world of cause and effect, we call this direction “linear time”
[11:17] Chraeloos: It’s like if someone says “Oh today went by so fast” but for other people it was really slow.
[11:18] Karlingo Lorefield: Youre talking about consciousness here surely
[11:18] Richard Winstanley: This time illusion is really changing anyway3
[11:18] Chraeloos: yes Karl essentially.
[11:18] Richard Winstanley: My reality is getting faster
[11:18] Chraeloos: and perception and experience.
[11:18] Karlingo Lorefield: When time flies, it is perhaps when the most enjoyment is being had. we are maybe at our most consious, I do not relate consciousness to the five senses particularly.
[11:19] druth Vlodovic: <sigh> the problem with people who “don’t believe in time” is that they never try to clairify their position
[11:19] Chraeloos: that’s what we’re going druth
[11:19] druth Vlodovic: which is especially annoying since it seems such a popular idea
[11:19] Chraeloos: I think time is experience.
[11:19] druth Vlodovic: generally it just devolves into semantics
[11:19] Chraeloos: not necessarily that it doesn’t exist, but it is different for each of us.
[11:19] Richard Winstanley: I agree with that because it’s not easy to explain
[11:19] druth Vlodovic: then try similies
[11:20] Chraeloos: Why, Karl, is consciousness not related to the senses?
[11:20] Richard Winstanley: Try reading ‘Punk Science’ by Dr Manjir Samanta-Laughton
[11:20] druth Vlodovic: ‘k
[11:20] Richard Winstanley: It explains things so most understand
[11:20] Chraeloos: whats the book about Richard?
[11:20] Karlingo Lorefield: Because I believe there is far more information available than is governed by the five “main” senses.
[11:21] Chraeloos: I agree with that, but they must be realted
[11:21] Chraeloos: *related
[11:21] Chraeloos: sorry having issues today haha
[11:21] Karlingo Lorefield: Im one big syntax error
[11:21] Richard Winstanley: It’s about consciousness, the universe, but really Quantum Physics for dummies
[11:22] Chraeloos: Cool, good to know, thanks Richard.
[11:22] Richard Winstanley: It’s tackled in a scientific way
[11:22] Chraeloos: cool
[11:22] Chraeloos: Well druth, why don’t you explain to us why time DOES exist?
[11:22] druth Vlodovic: cause and effect are rather ubiquitous to be easily dismissed, to my mind
[11:22] Chraeloos: in the general sense anyway lol
[11:23] druth Vlodovic: time is mainly the measure of cause and effect
[11:23] Chraeloos: That makes sense
[11:24] druth Vlodovic: I also subscribe to a bit of Darwinianism
[11:24] Chraeloos: but cause and effect must exist somewhere before time interacts?
[11:24] Richard Winstanley: The Cathars seemed to get it. Unfortunately they were all killed in the first crusade
[11:24] druth Vlodovic: what surives is what is best suited to the environment, and experience of time is also ubiquitous
[11:24] druth Vlodovic: if it was illusary it would not be the best fit to survival
[11:25] druth Vlodovic: without time there would be no cause and effect
[11:25] Richard Winstanley: if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes?
[11:25] Chraeloos: as our brains exist now. What about if we can utilize more of our brainpower? We know it exists, we just don’t use it, at least not at once.
[11:25] Karlingo Lorefield: hiya brian
[11:25] Chraeloos: Hi Brian πŸ™‚
[11:25] Richard Winstanley: That’s another problem!
[11:25] darcon Xue: there is a external interference Rich πŸ™‚
[11:26] darcon Xue: we are not alone in the universe
[11:26] druth Vlodovic: if big dogs evolved from small dogs why do small dogs still exist?
[11:26] darcon Xue: πŸ™‚
[11:26] Brian77Aileen: Hi Karlingp
[11:26] Karlingo Lorefield: gday
[11:26] Karlingo Lorefield: make yourself at home, never need to ask
[11:26] sofa cushion whispers: Hi Brian77Aileen Resident! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[11:27] Richard Winstanley: We are not alone, but these so called UFOs are not from another imaginary planet, just another dimension
[11:27] druth Vlodovic: you thin cause and effect would disappear if we became more mentally capable charae?
[11:27] Karlingo Lorefield: I discussed aliens with a family member the other week….
[11:27] Chraeloos: not necessarily, who knows what would happen if we became more mentally capable. But we would at least experience things such as cause and effect and time differently I’m sure.
[11:27] Karlingo Lorefield: they said “why do aliens not come and say hi”, so i replied with “why do crabs in the sea not do the same? or the fieldmouse”?
[11:28] Chraeloos: Haha Karl nice one
[11:28] Karlingo Lorefield: what they need to understand is, we most probably are being watched, just like a crab or mouse would…
[11:28] Richard Winstanley: We have it all there, just have problems using it
[11:28] Karlingo Lorefield: but they are soooo different than us.
[11:28] Chraeloos: Right Richard
[11:28] Richard Winstanley: anyone have problems watching 3D TV?
[11:28] darcon Xue: some one is speaking to human kind in the cropcirles
[11:28] druth Vlodovic: perhaps char, but to declare the non-existence of something we all experience seems premature
[11:29] darcon Xue: cropcirles*
[11:29] Karlingo Lorefield: nay
[11:29] Chraeloos: I am not saying it doesn’t exist.
[11:29] Chraeloos: I’m saying it is different for each of us.
[11:29] Chraeloos: that time is not one of the basic forms, for lack of a better illusion.
[11:29] Chraeloos: *allusion
[11:29] Chraeloos: gosh, typing today
[11:29] Richard Winstanley: Yes, different realities
[11:29] Brian77Aileen: Species is just a form of the word “Specific
[11:30] druth Vlodovic: my own view is that there is a physical universe, probably more complicated than we know, and each person carries around several versions of it in their mind
[11:30] Karlingo Lorefield: good evening Dan.
[11:30] Dan Loudwater: Good evening Karl!
[11:30] darcon Xue: I agree with you druth πŸ™‚
[11:30] Dan Loudwater: just working on geting my headphones working!
[11:30] Karlingo Lorefield: Everybody, this is Dan, one of my RL “online students”
[11:30] druth Vlodovic: hmm, when is the Japanese class?
[11:30] Karlingo Lorefield: Dan, meet some of the regulars.
[11:30] Brian77Aileen: Specifically it’s a dog eat dog world (any size dog)
[11:30] Richard Winstanley: That’s different to me as I don’t believe there is anything physical
[11:30] druth Vlodovic: we may be running into an example of shared time πŸ™‚
[11:30] Chraeloos: That makes sense druth
[11:30] Karlingo Lorefield: I shall go to the back of the room with Dan and have the lesson with him in voice, see you all later.
[11:31] Chraeloos: Hello Dan
[11:31] Brian77Aileen: that’s why you’ve never tripped over your words
[11:31] Richard Winstanley: Unfortunately, I must go
[11:31] Karlingo Lorefield: Dan, Chraeloos is the marketing manager here.
[11:31] Richard Winstanley: This is a great debate
[11:31] druth Vlodovic: ok ,have fun guys
[11:31] Karlingo Lorefield: πŸ™‚
[11:31] darcon Xue: Have a nice time Rich love πŸ™‚
[11:31] Karlingo Lorefield: Thank you.
[11:31] Karlingo Lorefield: denwa shite kudasai
[11:31] Chraeloos: Enjoy guys, thanks for coming πŸ™‚
[11:32] Richard Winstanley: Thank you all so much for this chat
[11:32] Richard Winstanley: I’ve really enjoyed it
[11:32] darcon Xue: we are very welcome πŸ™‚
[11:32] druth Vlodovic: maybe i shoud hunt you down and finish this with you later πŸ™‚
[11:32] Chraeloos: Thanks Richard! Come again next week πŸ™‚
[11:32] Richard Winstanley: Loved hearing your views
[11:32] Richard Winstanley: I’ll certainly try
[11:32] druth Vlodovic: I try to engage as many people as I can with your view because I really don’t understand it
[11:32] Richard Winstanley: Hope we can extend this one
[11:33] Chraeloos: We sure can
[11:33] darcon Xue: πŸ˜€
[11:33] Chraeloos: I’m usually around here so if you ever want to continue, you know where to find me!
[11:33] Chraeloos: πŸ™‚
[11:33] Richard Winstanley: You are thinking too hard Druth
[11:33] Richard Winstanley: It’s not complicated
[11:33] Richard Winstanley: Bye
[11:33] druth Vlodovic: have fun richard
[11:33] darcon Xue: See you love πŸ™‚
[11:35] Chraeloos: Well, we will never agree on all of this haha
[11:35] Chraeloos: No two people can
[11:35] darcon Xue: πŸ˜€
[11:35] druth Vlodovic: oh I’m sure we can converge our idea to certain extents
[11:35] darcon Xue: but we will lovely desagee πŸ™‚
[11:35] Chraeloos: Haha yes, we sure can
[11:36] druth Vlodovic: it’s never really my purpose to convince anybody, just the form of it seems best for drawing out thoughts
[11:36] Chraeloos: Of course
[11:36] Chraeloos: I’m not saying we are supposed to haha
[11:36] darcon Xue: πŸ˜€
[11:36] druth Vlodovic: makes things hairy when I find myself engaged in a true believer of a faith =8-O
[11:37] Chraeloos: Haha yes those are always interesting conversations
[11:38] darcon Xue: πŸ™‚
[11:38] Brian77Aileen: you know eath, tht’s a faith in it’s own
[11:38] Chraeloos: Well, since we’ve been here for over an hour and a half I think we should call that it. If you guys want to stick around feel free, we can talk or you can look around whatever, but if you want to head out feel free πŸ™‚
[11:38] Chraeloos: What is Brian?
[11:39] Brian77Aileen: When you believe it is gong to be a hairy ordeeal – vonversing with those who have a faithof ttheir own – you too have that same faith (commuiction appreciated)
[11:40] Brian77Aileen: reiecognizing the similarities and not just the f=differences
[11:40] Chraeloos: It’s not always that way, I don’t see it as a faith really, more of a belief or point of view.
[11:41] Brian77Aileen: I’sn;t that what faith truly is though?
[11:41] Chraeloos: I don’t have anything against people who have a faith. I personally do not but I’m not against it.
[11:41] Chraeloos: Not really. Faith is a belief in a set of ideals and “truths”. Such as God(s), creation, etc. Faith is believing IN SOMETHING specific.
[11:42] Chraeloos: Belief or point of view is characteristic and easily changed depending on the moment.
[11:42] druth Vlodovic: the difference between knowledge and faith is that knowledge can be freely examined and altered
[11:42] Brian77Aileen: is that to say you’ve never met ana athiest who had some kiind of faith?
[11:42] Chraeloos: Not at all
[11:42] Chraeloos: I think being an athiest is essentially a faith
[11:42] druth Vlodovic: people are sort of hardwired to “believe”
[11:42] Chraeloos: you believe in a set if ideals
[11:42] darcon Xue: brb
[11:42] Chraeloos: sure
[11:42] Brian77Aileen: their belief is that they have no belief ain a higher power, and they have faith in that
[11:43] Chraeloos: Right, but faith in the traditional meaning is a religious word.
[11:43] druth Vlodovic: often that is an illusion created by their frustration during an argument
[11:43] Brian77Aileen: NOw we are talking about religion?
[11:43] Chraeloos: I agree druth, with the difference between knowledge and faith.
[11:43] druth Vlodovic: when I start getting dogmatic I try to remember to leave πŸ™‚
[11:43] Chraeloos: I’m merely saying, faith as a word indicates a religion.
[11:44] druth Vlodovic: well, belief
[11:44] Chraeloos: No, this is not a religious discussion lol
[11:44] druth Vlodovic: religion tends to use belief to secure power
[11:44] Chraeloos: The way I see “faith” is a handing over of yourself to a set of ideals.
[11:44] druth Vlodovic: and wants to cover all bases
[11:44] Brian77Aileen: I never brought up religion , only responded to its emergence
[11:44] Chraeloos: belief is more of a casual thing I think.
[11:44] Chraeloos: faith covers many topics in my view, belief covers perhaps one at a time
[11:45] druth Vlodovic: and, of course, those who want power don’t want it questioned, so they call on “faith”
[11:45] Chraeloos: as did I Brian
[11:45] Brian77Aileen: Do you have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow or just belief?
[11:45] Chraeloos: belief
[11:45] Brian77Aileen: Is belief based on faith?
[11:45] Chraeloos: If it does not I will not think the whole world is shattering. Unless of course it is haha
[11:45] druth Vlodovic: I have a passing knowledge of the mechanisms involved,
[11:45] Chraeloos: Ok druth, I see that.
[11:46] Brian77Aileen: I guess, then I’m enlightened
[11:46] druth Vlodovic: I wouldn’t feel betrayed if it didn’t
[11:46] Chraeloos: It’s different layers
[11:46] druth Vlodovic: but I wuld probably be a bit afraid lol
[11:46] Chraeloos: Agreed druth
[11:46] Chraeloos: That’s what i was trying to say haha it didn’t work though
[11:47] druth Vlodovic: “belief” as I know the word, is knowledge infected with faith
[11:47] Chraeloos: I don’t think it’s possible to say that a belief is faith, or a faith is believe. It’s like one of those charts with the two circles that overlap but have their own sections as well.
[11:47] druth Vlodovic: a lot of the knowledge I have is actually belief because I learned it, rather than experienceing and reasoning it out myself
[11:47] Chraeloos: True
[11:47] Brian77Aileen: You mean a Vinn Diagram
[11:47] druth Vlodovic: venn diagram
[11:48] druth Vlodovic: trust his spelling more than mine πŸ™‚
[11:48] Chraeloos: Yes that haha
[11:48] druth Vlodovic: I believe I know why the earth moves around the sun because I have a bit of faith in the people who taught me the mechanisms
[11:48] Chraeloos: We seem to be having the same troubles today druth haha
[11:48] Chraeloos: There you go, druth, hit the nail on the head
[11:49] druth Vlodovic: thaty faith is increased by how often they are wrong, and admit to it lol
[11:49] Chraeloos: and admit to it, haha yeah exactly
[11:49] Brian77Aileen: Maybe it’s just sheeer admiration of them transmuted n to what you call faith
[11:50] druth Vlodovic: I suspect the feeling of betrayal is closely linked to faith
[11:50] druth Vlodovic: kids have faith in their parents
[11:50] Brian77Aileen: Kids have Blind faith…like eric Clapton once haad
[11:50] druth Vlodovic: if this isn’t mitigated before they really start to experience the world then it gets betrayed by a human being’s natural limitations
[11:51] druth Vlodovic: so it comes out as a feeling of betrayal
[11:51] druth Vlodovic: “teenage angst”
[11:51] darcon Xue: b πŸ™‚
[11:51] Brian77Aileen: Adult curiosity…like what this is
[11:51] druth Vlodovic: I suspect that a continuation of this is why adults have religion
[11:52] Chraeloos: Quite possibly, druth.
[11:52] Chraeloos: I like that
[11:52] Chraeloos: It is good guidance, usually. Right from wrong etc.
[11:52] Chraeloos: Emphasis on the USUALLY.
[11:52] Chraeloos: Until some individuals decides to screw with people (pardon my language haha)
[11:53] druth Vlodovic: life is complicated and often we need the rules before we can know why
[11:53] Chraeloos: *individual
[11:53] druth Vlodovic: so a child’s faith is necessary for thewir survival
[11:53] Chraeloos: Very true, but which rules are correct. Back to morals haha
[11:53] druth Vlodovic: I prefer reason
[11:53] Chraeloos: Not everyone has the same reason though
[11:53] Chraeloos: Er, skills
[11:53] Brian77Aileen: Is that why we have no child athiests?
[11:53] druth Vlodovic: I only use punishment to get their attention, then it’s a “learning oppourtunity”
[11:54] Chraeloos: Who’s to say we have no children that are athiest?
[11:54] druth Vlodovic: belief has to be taught
[11:54] Brian77Aileen: Or, indeed…have faith?
[11:54] druth Vlodovic: an athiest is usually a person who had faith in a god and then discarded it
[11:54] Brian77Aileen: KIds follow the prgram till they find anog=ther one
[11:54] druth Vlodovic: so people who don’t care would be agnsitic
[11:55] Chraeloos: Ok we were definitely confusing the two I think
[11:55] Brian77Aileen: No,, I think that def would be more of an agnostic who is sthiinking about goin both ways
[11:55] druth Vlodovic: if you get angry when your belief is challenged then you have faith πŸ™‚
[11:55] darcon Xue: πŸ˜€
[11:55] Brian77Aileen: NOt if yo don’t belive.
[11:55] druth Vlodovic: naw, I don’t see the point in going either way
[11:56] Brian77Aileen: That’s why ther is the term agnosstic
[11:56] Brian77Aileen: take it or leave (Like America)
[11:56] druth Vlodovic: it’s just a label I applied because people kept asking me what I believed
[11:56] Chraeloos: lol Brian
[11:56] druth Vlodovic: it’s shorter than an actual explanation πŸ™‚
[11:57] Chraeloos: Fair enough
[11:57] Brian77Aileen: I missed teh “what do you believe Question druth
[11:57] darcon Xue: πŸ™‚
[11:58] Brian77Aileen: I thought yo guys were ;philosophizing
[11:58] druth Vlodovic: we were just defining terms so I told you why i don’t consider an agnostic to be a partaker of both sides
[11:58] Brian77Aileen: No, he’s in the middle
[11:58] Brian77Aileen: giving equal space to both sides
[11:58] Chraeloos: We are Brian lol
[11:59] darcon Xue: πŸ™‚
[11:59] druth Vlodovic: ok, “equal” mybe atheist is a better description πŸ™‚
[11:59] Chraeloos: We’ve gone from reality, to time, to consciousness, to religion and probably crossed some lines in there haha
[11:59] Brian77Aileen: If giving space too both sides is what we are dong…where is the middle?
[12:00] Chraeloos: Is that not the middle?
[12:00] Brian77Aileen: I got here somewhee after consciousnes and before reliion…how abaout anyone else (really?).
[12:01] druth Vlodovic: the middle is where the guy with the loudest voice says it is
[12:01] druth Vlodovic: ohh, tagline!
[12:01] Brian77Aileen: the what is a Veen Diagram?
[12:01] druth Vlodovic: “I got here somewhere after consciousness and before religion”
[12:01] Brian77Aileen: It’s a celebration of both sides whith an observation iin the middle
[12:01] Chraeloos: hahaha druth
[12:02] Chraeloos: Sure
[12:03] Chraeloos: Well we can’t fairly say that anything is absolute, can we?
[12:03] druth Vlodovic: I don;t necessarily believe in any god(s) but wouldn’t be shocked if I met one, what does that make me?
[12:03] Brian77Aileen: Waiting to ehale?
[12:03] Brian77Aileen: Askeptic with a hevy defensive belief system
[12:03] druth Vlodovic: there are two very different definitions of skeptic
[12:04] Chraeloos: How about passive?
[12:04] druth Vlodovic: the common usage is a person who questions everything
[12:04] Chraeloos: Not indifferent
[12:04] Brian77Aileen: And defesnse and God adn the lack of one
[12:04] druth Vlodovic: the philosophic is the belief that nothing can be known
[12:04] Brian77Aileen: but the premises in that is that God is the subject
[12:05] Chraeloos: Not necessarily
[12:05] druth Vlodovic: the secnd definition takes a lot of faith to my mind, the first is more me
[12:05] Brian77Aileen: Agnostic and athiests and belieevers have to topic without wGod
[12:05] Brian77Aileen: NOthng to talk about then…
[12:05] druth Vlodovic: there is plenty to talk about once you get rid of god
[12:06] druth Vlodovic: it just becomes more interesting
[12:06] druth Vlodovic: and less emotional
[12:06] Brian77Aileen: You believe in god or ?I believe in god…God and belief are the reigning entities
[12:06] Chraeloos: I agree druth
[12:06] Chraeloos: It isn’t just about God though
[12:06] Chraeloos: Religion is a lot more than that. It’s a whole system
[12:06] Brian77Aileen: NOr, is it just aaout belief.
[12:07] darcon Xue: who believes in god no need religion
[12:07] druth Vlodovic: certain types of goddists tend to believe that there is nothing but god, and nothing is important but god
[12:07] Brian77Aileen: Lack belief, lack religiinon , lakc the oppostion of religion , or God…and we have noting to talk about except what emerges next
[12:07] druth Vlodovic: this is often a logical disconnect between rationalists and religionists
[12:08] druth Vlodovic: whta is wrong with talking about what happens next?
[12:08] Brian77Aileen: both have and need rationalism
[12:08] druth Vlodovic: nope πŸ™‚
[12:08] Brian77Aileen: nothing, if you could get off of God
[12:08] druth Vlodovic: we were talking about creating realities, and the assumptions that underly them
[12:08] druth Vlodovic: one big assumption that many people don’t really know they have is that everything needs:
[12:08] druth Vlodovic: a purpose
[12:09] druth Vlodovic: drop this idea and life becomes much easier
[12:09] Brian77Aileen: Possibly, creation is an assupmtion: Carl sagan ssaid to truly bake an original pie “from scraatch”..you would have to reinvent the universe…is that whaat is happenin here?
[12:10] druth Vlodovic: we are starting to really look at the universe
[12:10] druth Vlodovic: and only discarding the narratives we’ve covered it in
[12:11] Brian77Aileen: It’s not a unified universe when you start “discarding”
[12:11] druth Vlodovic: if you look at the world through green glasses then eveything looks green
[12:11] Brian77Aileen: Tha’s an elimination of processes that may be deemed valuable
[12:11] Chraeloos: I agree druth. Purposes are an interesting human trait, dont you think?
[12:11] druth Vlodovic: take them off and you no longer live in the emerald city
[12:12] druth Vlodovic: we think in terms of narrative, “what happens next” “wy did this happen”
[12:12] druth Vlodovic: it helps us predict the future
[12:12] Brian77Aileen: all of our eyes are clouded by our own experience..not glasses (only).
[12:12] druth Vlodovic: true brian πŸ™‚
[12:12] druth Vlodovic: (got to go in five min btw)
[12:13] Chraeloos: Okay druth, thanks so much for coming!
[12:13] Chraeloos: Thats a good point Brian
[12:13] Brian77Aileen: I must leave now, do you have a calling card that I may jooin
[12:13] druth Vlodovic: I didn’t want to get deep in something and look like I’m running away from it
[12:13] Chraeloos: Thanks Brian
[12:13] Chraeloos: Ok sounds good
[12:14] Chraeloos: Well next time we may go off of purposes
[12:14] Chraeloos: I like that topic
[12:14] Chraeloos: πŸ™‚
[12:14] Brian77Aileen: Thank you , truthfully I hope you have a nice day (everyone) but I won’t limiit that to one day
[12:14] Chraeloos: Thanks for coming Brian!
[12:14] druth Vlodovic: “There ain’t one!”
[12:14] druth Vlodovic: I’m done lol
[12:14] Chraeloos: We have another event next week same tiem 10am
[12:14] Chraeloos: Same thing
[12:14] Brian77Aileen: 1n1 r1
[12:14] druth Vlodovic: ??
[12:14] Brian77Aileen: Peace …theer is 1
[12:14] Chraeloos: Lol but you must back that up druth lol
[12:14] Brian77Aileen: one and one are one
[12:15] druth Vlodovic: that would be likfe grabbing a bunch of personal diaries from WW2 germany and proving there was no holocaust lol
[12:15] druth Vlodovic: can’t prove a negative
[12:15] Chraeloos: haha point taken
[12:15] druth Vlodovic: but I could try πŸ™‚
[12:15] Chraeloos: I’m sure someone will disagree though
[12:16] Chraeloos: THink about it haha and we’ll see where that takes us πŸ™‚


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